RCD Types, Ticking time bomb

[SparkySy]

I think it would be safer for us to install RCDs that can work for general protection of the fixed wiring installation and consumer so for instance a type A then it should be down to the manufacturer of XYZ product to protect the product with say a type b rcd or Afdd ect. This way you ensure that the consumer will see it every time they use the XYZ product and if it does trip they know where it is to re-set it. Take a washing machine for instance they get used every day, if it was built into the controls it would be easy to find and reset and test. And it would also give the user a secondary protective device in case of fault.
Just an idea can't see manufacturers stumping the bill for that when they can ultimately make it the consumers problem and expense!

 

[ipf]

Don't worry about it. We'll be resetting them from our phones by 2030, when I start thinking about getting rid if my then old diesel van.....honest!

 

[AJshep]

I agree with @pc1966 about the AFDDs.
AFDDs are great but in terms of making installation safer I'm still failing to see the real benefits. I know they will pick up parrallel arcs but most likely a OCPD or RCD would take care of these, its rare that you get a high resistance joint between L-N that doesn't turn into a dead short.

My issues:
1) At the moment they only go up to 32amps ( no 40amp shower protection which is where they would benifit IMO )

2) only rated for domestic use

3) Need a series arc greater then 2.5amps to operate (Electrium claim 1.5amps I think) so not so good for Led lighting circuits, which they are possibly adding to the new DPC... Even if you had a lighting circuit with a load of 2.5amps the AFDDs would only operate if the arc was near the origin of the circuit.

4) will work on RFCs but only on the connected load to the appliance, still need to remember that a series arc of 2.5amps is needed downstream of the fault so again it depends on where the arc develops.

 

[pc1966]

Wylex do a 40A AFDD so that can be covered, but I don't know about others.

Hager have an AFDD add-on to a MCB that could be used in commercial setups, but a major PITA compared to the neat Wylex solution, and some DP ones rasted at 10kA in EU but not for typical CU seen in the UK.

My biggest concerns with them are:
1) Cost. Just now it would add about £1k (or more) to a board change so if it puts off people from doing a CU upgrade that is likely to put more lives at risk than if more CU are upgraded to RCD protection.

2) Testing. there seems to be no standard test for them or MFT that allow you to diagnose problems. AFDD trips, what do you tell the customer? Change it only to find no improvement? Test for faults in the wiring - how? Test for sparking in appliances causing it - how?

 

[stevethesparks]

Wylex do a 40A AFDD so that can be covered, but I don't know about others.

Hager have an AFDD add-on to a MCB that could be used in commercial setups, but a major PITA compared to the neat Wylex solution, and some DP ones rasted at 10kA in EU but not for typical CU seen in the UK.

My biggest concerns with them are:
1) Cost. Just now it would add about £1k (or more) to a board change so if it puts off people from doing a CU upgrade that is likely to put more lives at risk than if more CU are upgraded to RCD protection.

2) Testing. there seems to be no standard test for them or MFT that allow you to diagnose problems. AFDD trips, what do you tell the customer? Change it only to find no improvement? Test for faults in the wiring - how? Test for sparking in appliances causing it - how?

As said before, a standardised testing port should be included. All to rushed forward in my opinion. More equipment to buy in the future, more calibration costs.

 

[AJshep]

I agree, I don't think there will ever be an effective way of testing these devices either, We just have to rely on the microprocessor and a flashing LED.

I got it wrong earlier they can be used in Commercial, but the pollution degree is only 2 so consideration is needed.