Release electrical certificates

[Risteard]

So you are saying is ok for the OP to crack on and do his own certs then?

I already answered that: If he is competent to do so then he can. If he isn't competent then he shouldn't be carrying out electrical work anyway.

 

[Spoon]

I already answered that: If he is competent to do so then he can. If he isn't competent then he shouldn't be carrying out electrical work anyway.

and only a court can assess whether someone is competent......
How does one go about that?

 

[Risteard]

and only a court can assess whether someone is competent......
How does one go about that?

Well, obviously.

If something untoward happened and this went through the courts then it is ultimately up to the court to judge whether this was a competent person or not. You or me saying that he was or wasn't wouldn't be terribly relevant.

 

[The Ghost]

That could be difficult with no qualifications.

He must have Italian qualifications which would be translated, he should try STROMA and see what they say.

 

[Spoon]

Well, obviously.

If something untoward happened and this went through the courts then it is ultimately up to the court to judge whether this was a competent person or not. You or me saying that he was or wasn't wouldn't be terribly relevant.

That wasn't the question mate.
You have stated "Only a court could assess whether someone was competent to carry out certain work"
How does one go about that?
How many people on here have a letter from a court saying they are competent?
How do you become competent?

 

[Spoon]

He must have Italian qualifications which would be translated, he should try STROMA and see what they say.

See below from OP

unfortunately I have no qualifications, in Italy to receive the qualifications of a company you have to work for 5 years, I worked for 7 years with one and the rest as self empolyed, the problem is that in Italy after each year that passes in the company your salary is increased, so my employer fired me every year and then summarized me.

 

[The Ghost]

How does one go about that

Between BS7671 and EAWR competence is now someone who has experience and has been trained with qualifications the OP must meet those requirements. He could not be doing what he is doing if not.

 

[Risteard]

That wasn't the question mate.

Yes it was the question.

You won't get a stamp to stick on your forehead declaring you competent.

If things go very badly then a court may well come to the view that you were incompetent.

 

[Spoon]

Between BS7671 and EAWR competence is now someone who has experience and has been trained with qualifications the OP must meet those requirements. He could not be doing what he is doing if not.

Thank you @Vortigern

So the OP has no qualifications and therefore shouldn't be doing his own certs. He should continue "to call an external person to certify my work" as the OP has stated he is doing now.

 

[The Ghost]

As far as I am aware the only CPS scheme that supports 3rd party certification is STROMA which I am able to do. Any other scheme cannot do this. However this is all far away from what the OP has asked. SO.... @eserem if you want to know how to go about being qualified to do your own certs then look at this link and read it carefully it shows the five accepted routes into becoming an electrician and there is really no other way.
Morris Services - Getting Started - http://www.morrisservices.co.uk/gettingstarted.asp

 

[The Ghost]

@eserem do you know how to test and fill in certs. for initial verification? Maybe you should do so and get the person over you to validate your cert. instead of doing them for you? There are two signatures (or more) required for an EIC, one the person testing and two the qualified supervisor. So you do the cert. and the qualified supervisor does the counter signature. Which is fairly standard practice. But aside from that it will get you more experience in the area. Do you have test equipment?

 

[Risteard]

Thank you @Vortigern

So the OP has no qualifications and therefore shouldn't be doing his own certs. He should continue "to call an external person to certify my work" as the OP has stated he is doing now.

Again, that's not strictly accurate. I already mentioned earlier that competence can be a combination of training, experience and qualifications. That's not the same as saying that qualifications are mandatory to be competent. It's all of those factors taken together.

There simply isn't a dictionary definition of a competent Electrician - and that is my point that ultimately it is the courts who will decide whether someone is competent or incompetent.

So you can't say that the OP mustn't issue certs - if he's competent to do the work then he should also be competent to inspect, test and certify it. Whether he is competent or not is not something I am in a position to comment on. I've never met him for a start.

 

[The Ghost]

Reg 16 EAWR...
Technical knowledge or experience
239
The scope of ‘technical knowledge or experience’ should include:
(a) adequate knowledge of electricity;
(b) adequate experience of the electrical work being carried out;
(c) adequate understanding of the system to be worked on and practical
experience of that class of system;
(d) understanding of the hazards which may arise during the work and the precautions which need to be taken;
(e) the ability to recognise at all times whether it is safe for work to continue

BS7671 Amd 3 "Skilled person" competent person removed due to "confusion" apparently.
A person who possesses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and where appropriate, injury to him/herself and others
Just for information!

 

[westward10]

That's me finished then.

 

[gazdkw82]

Always seems a grey area.

However, if you are doing electrical work and cannot fill out certificates then that's a concerning problem.

I was always under the assumption you had to have a certain level of qualifications (level 2?) To be able to do certs?

If that's not the case then it probably should.

 

[The Ghost]

The thing to understand about all of this is it only becomes a legal issue if there is harm to persons or livestock or damage to property resulting from negligent work. You can have all the qualifications you like but being human we are prone to error. This is the reason why we do testing, if done properly it should pick up any errors and get rectified and re-tested to ensure the error has been rectified. The trouble with electrics is that if it goes wrong it does so in a manner which may be fatal and that is the thing we are all trying to ensure does not happen. It is in no way a gray area, in court they will use the existing law and it is clear what you need to work on electrical installation if you do not have that then the law will take due account. And you will go to prison or suffer heavy fines unless you can call the defence in Regulation 29 EAWR, and have complied with Regulation 16.

 

[gazdkw82]

It's not a grey area of the dangers of bad practice. It's a grey area on the term "competent person" and what qualifications you actually need to be doing electrical work, if any?

Can you answer this simply.....

What qualifications do I need to have to rewire my house?

I've done some electrical work in my house before and im having my dad come round and test it for me once I'm done as he is a qualified electrician.

Not trying to be argumentative, genuinely interested.

 

[The Ghost]

What qualifications do I need to have to rewire my house?

Answer (simply): None.
The breakdown in proper process will occur when the work is done and then the inspection occurs. A third party testing after the work will not qualify as valid testing. Any harm resulting would be the fault of the person assuming responsibility.
However in another view the householder, not having notified BC at least 48 hours prior to undertaking electrical work, will have broken the law.

 

[gazdkw82]

I want to take my gas boiler out and replace it with a shiny new gas boiler. I've done work with gas before so feel safe. My dad's going to come over once I'm done and check as he is an gas engineer.

Can I do it?

 

[The Ghost]

It's a grey area on the term "competent person"

Again not a grey area. This is why there are Competent Person Schemes. If you are a member then you are adjudged competent. That is complying with the various legal definitions of competent.

Can I do it?

I do not have a clue on that, ask a gas safe engineer.