Reverting from LED lighting to Halogen

[JD]

Hi,

I am not an electrician but I wondered if I might ask for a little bit of advice?

My parents have just bought a house and all of the rooms are lit with LED light bulbs, which give me a bad headache after half an hour.

I would like to switch to halogen light bulbs, but I've never really worked with LED spotlights before and I wondered if you could tell me what I need to do to get the spotlights out of the ceiling and figure out which halogen bulb I need to buy to replace them?

Some of the rooms have 8 spotlights embedded in the ceiling, and some rooms have three bulbs sticking out of the ceiling in the mounts of some kind.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Jen

 

[Octopus]

To be honest you need somebody to come round and take a look - there are far too many variables.

Aopologies if this isn't what you want to hear.

 

[JD]

Hi,

Thanks, that's okay. Tbh if that's what needs to happen, it's easier to know that before I spend two weeks slogging through websites.

Ta!

Jen

 

[buzzlightyear]

My parents have just bought a house and all of the rooms are lit with LED light bulbs, which give me a bad headache after half an hour.

are the leds warm white or cool white ?

 

[JD]

I think they are cool white and every room has a dimmer switch.

 

[JD]

I also get on with fluorescent energy saving bulbs and incandescent bulbs if they would be any good.

 

[JD]

I am going back to visit, and I will take out the bulbs and look at them. If you could even give me a list of information to find out that would be extremely helpful.

 

[buzzlightyear]

try a replace the cool white with warm white I will be better for your eyes , warm light is nearly the same has a incandescing lighting bulb.

 

[JD]

I think it may be the flickering that is the problem though. I gather that is the main issue with LED, is it not? I've spent such a long time experimenting with LED-everything and it does such epically bad things to me each time. Tbh I'd rather just get rid of them.

I also have an old phone, and old computer and so on.

 

[Octopus]

You could try replacing the dimmers with normal switches ....

 

[buzzlightyear]

I think it may be the flickering that is the problem though. I gather that is the main issue with LED,

what type of switches have got !

 

[buzzlightyear]

You could try replacing the dimmers with normal switches

back in the box you go Murdoch.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I also have an old phone, and old computer and so on

go on Murdoch, ask her what kind of phone & pc the lady has !

 

[JD]

LOL! I have a Samsung GT-E1080, which is very easy on the eyes and also can make and receive telephone calls, which is what I need it for.
http://www.samsung.com/uk/support/model/GT-E1080ZKIXEU

My laptop is a Toshiba Satellite pro U400, which is also splendid.
Satellite Pro U400-18S - Toshiba - http://www.toshiba.co.uk/discontinued-products/satellite-pro-u400-18s/

By training I'm a research scientist, and I'm currently making videos on how to build automated microscopes from scratch using arduinos and bits and bobs and very expensive lenses, so I'm okay for a bit of mickey taking.

My next project is to convert a ccfl laptop screen into a desktop screen using a special gizmo that's coming in the post from China and a few instructables webpages. I'm hoping that will tide me over after this laptop keels over. It turns out necessity really is the mother of invention.

Thanks for the tips on LED bulbs. It really is very helpful. I'm kicking myself for not photographing the dimmer switches now.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Thanks for the tips on LED bulbs. It really is very helpful. I'm kicking myself for not photographing the dimmer switches now.

now the penny has dropped! so Murdoch Holmes was wright then .

 

[buzzlightyear]

By training I'm a research scientist

it is no point giving half a story ,dimmer switches playing up or to bright the light.

 

[JD]

Really? I don't quite follow.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Really? I don't quite follow.

I think it may be the flickering that is the problem though. I gather that is the main issue with LED

You could try replacing the dimmers with normal switches ....

,dimmer switches playing up or to bright the light.

 

[JD]

I don't think that getting rid of the dimmer switches so that the leds are always on maximum brightness would solve the problem, because then firstly they would be super bright, but then also I think they still flicker even on maximum brightness. Is that not right?

 

[JD]

I read it here:

The Scientific Reason You Don't Like LED Bulbs—and the Simple Way to Fix Them - https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-scientific-reason-you-dont-like-led-bulbs-mdash-and-the-simple-way-to-fix-them/

 

[buzzlightyear]

fleabay £££££££,that will stop the brightness .

 

[pirate]

If it's of any interest, following replacing all of my GU10 halogens with LED I have about 50 halogen ones in my cupboard...you can have them for nothing, or the postage...

 

[JD]

Pirate, that would be fantastic if you didn't mind. To be honest I did wonder if there were stacks of halogens heading for the bin as people switched to LEDs. I'd be really glad to give some a new home.

If I go and have a look on Saturday could I get back to you? I'm not sure if they are GU10s until I take a look.

Thanks!

 

[Octopus]

I don't think that getting rid of the dimmer switches so that the leds are always on maximum brightness would solve the problem, because then firstly they would be super bright, but then also I think they still flicker even on maximum brightness. Is that not right?

They shouldn't flicker on full brightness. This needs sorting out first.

 

[JD]

That article says that they still flicker on full brightness as long as they are driven on AC current. It says only if they are driven on DC do they stop flickering. Do you not agree?

Caveat is that I'm not totally sure that it is the flicker. I also have trouble with very bright screens with CCLF backlight so full brightness on non-flickering LED bulbs may be tricky too. I get on fine in daylight and with Halogen bulbs, 300W turned up to max.

It would be handy if I at least had a fairly immediate reaction so I could do several tests, but it takes an hour to kick in and then I feel rubbish for ages, so doing lots of tests if a bit tricky.

 

[buzzlightyear]

In a few years time when their is no longer halogens, what are the people like you self going to do then ..

 

[JD]

I think that the LED lights or whatever replaces them will be fixed so that it doesn't cause problems any more. There are huge numbers of people having problems with LEDs and the designers are working on it. It was the same when CRT screens first came out, until the fixed the refresh rate, and again the same when fluorescent strip lights came out. I reckon I just need to hang on to the old technology until the new technology gets fixed.

There are some people who still struggle after the technology is considered to be fixed though. Those would be people who struggle with migraines all the time for example. Some of them are just having to live in a world that is lit by types of light that their eyes can't cope with.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Those would be people who struggle with migraines all the time for example. Some of them are just having to live in a world that is lit by types of light that their eyes can't cope with.

I go to many customers property's most have the old energy saving lights .they may has well get a Davie lamp . they are now mass producing candles again when their in no light .

 

[JD]

We still have bayonet fit energy saving lights. I like them, though I have recently added a couple of 300W halogen uplighters as I realised we were basically sitting in darkness. My corner shop still sells incandescent light bulbs.

 

[JD]

As a matter of fact, a halogen uplighter is probably the obvious solution for my current problem. I could just put one in each room and turn off the other lights.

 

[Des 56]

I just had a look at some of the evidence about these effects

What I can gather from reading the info is the headaches are a consequence of on/off moments hundreds of times per second by the led
The dimming of the led is 100%, compared to that of 35% for a fluorescent tube
These off moments if too slow are seen unconsciously by the eyes, the more this cycling is increased the less its perceived

It suggests the better quality Led will cycle quicker than the cheap and nasties out there
Perhaps there may then be less chance of the human eye detecting these off periods

Seems to be a problem that has not been catered for when too readily ditching older technology prematurely

 

[NDG Elecs]

The only problem with halogen GU10s is that they are a little prone to blowing more regularly. And obviously they cost a bit to run.
Is it that the lights flicker Jennifer or is it the stroboscopic effect you are getting? Some people are more prone than others to this phenomenon. If they are flickering they shouldn't be and something is wrong. If it's the strobing then more expensive LED lamps will likely be designed better to counter the AC waveform issue Des mentions above. You could try a couple of the more expensive lamps in a bathroom perhaps where you wouldn't need to replace 8 of them.... And see if that helps.

I do feel quite strongly in favour of LED technology, so would encourage you to try out a couple of decent ones before you give up on them..

 

[123]

If the downlights are dedicated LED Units, replacing the bulb (or lamp if you prefer) won't be an option. I agree with @Murdoch in post #2. Get a spark round to take a look.

 

[JD]

Thanks, I've written to an electrician. I do see that testing some others is a good idea, but it takes me a long time to recover after exposure to LEDs. I still have a headache and other trouble since exposure yesterday and don't feel at all enthusiastic about testing more. Yuk.

 

[dmxtothemax]

The scientific reason you don’t like LED bulbs — and the simple way to fix them - http://theconversation.com/the-scientific-reason-you-dont-like-led-bulbs-and-the-simple-way-to-fix-them-81639

 

[telectrix]

think i'm going to need to contact Jack Daniels in Tennessee. his whiskey must be LED as it gives me a headache after every bottle.

 

[FatAlan]

I find paracetamol works quite well

 

[pirate]

Let me know, happy to give those halogens a new home.

 

[JD]

Thanks Pirate. I think your offer is the good option so far.

 

[David M]

Jen,
Personally I wouldn't just dismiss the idea of LED lights. There are (as mentioned) some variables to consider first before you swap back to the halogen lamps.
1. Make sure the dimmer switch is functioning as it should
2. Swap out the dimmer for a better quality or a normal switch
3. Change the lamp colour from cool to warm or day light.
4. Change the lamps for better quality ones (there are many different makes and qualities out there and to be frank some are sh**.

The down side of using halogen lamps is that they are more costly to run, get hot and need replacing more often.

 

[JD]

Hi David,

Thanks for your thoughts on this. The only problem is that LED lights mess me up for days after only an hour's exposure. Doing tests is really very hard for me. I don't really know a way round that.

 

[JD]

If anybody could recommend the best bulb and the perfect setup or something like that, then I could probably do one more test, but knocking myself over repeatedly in a trial and error system is not really an option.

 

[static zap]

American baseball cap (peak right-way round) works wonders , when LEDs are low and hard to avoid having in eyeline.
-- Never staring at them seems to improve things --
....Have heard something about ones with a yellow dot ,not flickering as badly ....
(Cap-Something I discovered when I no longer had a fringe to hide behind)
Also check out Wattages as others have mentioned,too much light will cause that " Maplin Moment "

 

[JD]

Oooo! That's great advice. Thanks. I was in a shop today lit by LEDs and I kept looking at lights to see if they were LEDs and regretting it as the headache dug deeper. The hat sounds an excellent plan.

Thanks for the word about wattages. I feel a DK book on home lighting coming on...

 

[123]

When it comes to LED Lamps - wattages don't mean much in terms of light output.

 

[JD]

I still have a headache, a stomachache and no appetite, after three days recovery from 1 hour of LED light. I'm afraid that these bulbs are definitely for the chop, just as soon as I can recover enough to get hold of the little blighters.

 

[JD]

This article is good:

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/2010/11/light-and-human-health-led-risks-highlighted.html

It says that because LED are very concentrated point-sources of light, they are extremely bright and we should not look directly at them. That fits very well with my experience, especially in shops.

I'm very glad we have online shopping though. A lot of shops seem to have gone all-LED now and it's blessed relief getting back out of them into the sunshine.

 

[buzzlightyear]

LEDs are hear to stay ,and I'm glad ,the reason is a they don't burn a lot of electricity like the halogens do (heat)and will save jo public a lot of cash and in general.
so in a few years time their will be no halogens, only LEDs
if I can reduce my electricity bills in half or a customers they will be glad and thank full.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I'm very glad we have online shopping though. A lot of shops seem to have gone all-LED now and it's blessed relief getting back out of them into the sunshine.

so you don't wear sunglasses then!

 

[JD]

I looked into the sunglasses and tinted lenses options and apparently sunglasses would make things worse for me, and I have never found a tint that worked.