Ring main become 2 radials

[Naz]

Electrical ring circuit

The electricalian came and did the second fix. But we werent sure if all the wires had been bought through the plaster board.

All the sockets work, but we wanted to make sure there are no wires hiding in the walls.. we tested by disconnecting one of the 2 lives going into the fuse.. when we did this we tested the 11 sockets ..they all worked except the one just as you walk in the LR.. when we switch the lives at the fuse, the one in the LR room now works but the other 10 stops working.. this tells us that we have again unintensionally created two radial circuits both ending with an exposed live wire in the wall somewhere...1 radial has 1 socket .. and the other radial has the other 10.. and we have a break between socket 10 and 11.. any suggestions how to resolve?

Is it be to remove the outgoing cable in the single radial.. and then find where the rouge outgoing wire is in the other 10 sockets..

 

[buzzlightyear]

Maybe i should correct my numbering

1 to 10 works

13 works

11 and 12 are behind a wall somewhere with the 2.5mm cut

A solution is to make to radials

1 to 10 on one and 13 on the other.. the issue is 10 has a live feed going out of it (that should go to socket 11 but instead goes is behind plasterboard somewherel) and socket 13 has a live going out of it that should go to 12 but again goes behind a wall somewhere

I see the fishing rods out ,but his fish don't bite .

 

[MJPD29]

You have the right idea testing the circuit but the way your going about it isn't correct and I'm not sure you have the right gear. Might be best to get a different electrician in to have a look

 

[MJPD29]

You have the right idea testing the circuit but the way your going about it isn't correct and I'm not sure you have the right gear. Might be best to get a different electrician in to have a look

 

[buzzlightyear]

Buzz.. 2 electricians

what was their names ,tom. dick now where's harry .

 

[buzzlightyear]

try trade and standards if you have no joy, I'm out .

 

[mickfred]

Your spark no 2 did not figure of 8 test it (or test it at all) . It's his problem to sort . You can get him to change it two radial if you want . But a radial with one socket is not ideal and mcbs need changing most likely

 

[Naz]

what was their names ,tom. dick now where's harry .

try trade and standards if you have no joy, I'm o

Your spark no 2 did not figure of 8 test it (or test it at all) . It's his problem to sort . You can get him to change it two radial if you want . But a radial with one socket is not ideal and mcbs need changing most likely

Like i said sparks to charges by the hour. So even though its his problem to solve, ill end up payig for it. And its also my fault as i should have known where all the sockets were..

I could get hom to kill socket 13 alltogether, and then its just a matter of getting him to go round socketa 1 to 10 to see which cable out is going into thin air. If he diconnects that one then at least i wont have a live hidden behind a plaster board somewhere

 

[mickfred]

This is my last comment . You have paid for a safe install , he has not done it. If it was my mistake I would be glad just to be allowed to fix it and not a lecture of how I could have killed some one or burnt the house down . Again if it was me I would be saying sorry and dropping a few quid for your time not asking to be paid for mine . I don't know if you have done this or not and I cant tell you what or how to do it but the MCB needs looking at (most likely a 32a and for a radial in 2.5 will not be suitable)

 

[buzzlightyear]

Just to clarify did you not want to pay for the said spark .charging you by the hour considering you said you should have known where the sockets were.i rest my case.

 

[123]

So why have you given me an “old” ?

Very odd

I wouldn't worry. @buzzlightyear has given them a bad spelling which has to be the funniest rating of the year so far

 

[123]

@Naz why is the original Spark no longer on the job?

 

[Naz]

Just to clarify did you not want to pay for the said spark .charging you by the hour considering you said you should have known where the sockets were.i rest my case.

I have paid him.. i said i cant completly blame him as i have got him in to do the second fix ...its not his fault that i cant tell him where the cables are behind the wall.

Granted, that when turning on the ring circuit he should have cheacked that it was actually a ring and the live that is leaving the consumer unit is actually reuturning and not simply creating two rafial circuits each finishing in the plasterboard somewhere

Anyway buzz... you seem to like taking the p here. ... i am not an electrician (im actaully a banker, with a maths degree) .. nor am i trying to be.. i have got an electrician in.. an electrician who tells me that he has just paid 7k fees to get qualifited...a nice guy....as mick said people make mistakes thats life .. if i was doing a cowboy job myself, i wouldnt be asking here for your opinion.. id simply pull out the live wites leaving the last socket in each of the 2 radials kowing that there are no live wires in the wall..but like i said im not an electrican so thought id ask you.. and feed back any tips to the electrican who is starting out in his career.

 

[Naz]

@Naz why is the original Spark no longer on the job?

I fell out woth him.. during the first fix, he left telling us to plasterboard the ceiling without pulling through the cables for for the lights.. on starting the second fix he complained that he couldnt find the cables.. a problem i told him might happen when he originally instructed us to plasterboard without pulling the cables through..

 

[elsparko]

I fell out woth him.. during the first fix, he left telling us to plasterboard the ceiling without pulling through the cables for for the lights.. on starting the second fix he complained that he couldnt find the cables.. a problem i told him might happen when he originally instructed us to plasterboard without pulling the cables through..

fill me a bin bag of £50s and ill come sort it for you

 

[gazdkw82]

What an odd post.

 

[Octopus]

So in summary:

Its a garden annex being constructed / converted for domestic use

Spark A first fixed -
OP is doing the building work
Spark B has started 2nd fix
No evidence of any testing
Socket circuit has "continuity" issues

Lord knows what the rest is like ? The submain?

This falls under part P of the Building regs so you need an EIC and Part P cert

Sounds to me like the OP needs a 3rd spark to perform surgery with a hammer on the property to locate the cables ......

Good luck with that!

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

Oh dear,what a thread.Your main problem is now to sack the present electrician(I use that word loosely) and get someone who knows how to use an insulation resistance meter and can find the fault by testing and a methodical approach on how it's wired.
You paying a 5WWW to just switch on and then scratch his head is not helping your bank balance or your families safety. That's why you pay someone to do it because they have the experience to do the job.If your present joker was decent he should hold up his hands and say he hasn't got the experience and stop charging you for his incompetence.

 

[buzzlightyear]

This post is like cludo ,now who was killed in the litrybrary !

 

[JOURNEYMAN]

This sounds like a poor communication problem between whoever is doing the building works and the electrician. It's perfectly acceptable to install cables in ceiling ready to retrieve after plasterboarding and skimming provided that the location of said cables has been carefully noted . As others have said, the 2nd electrician should have dead tested prior to energizing to ensure continuity, ins resistance, polarity etc. I would advise that as project manager the OP finds and pays a reputable electrician to carry out the remedial works before it gets further out of hand.

 

[LankyWill]

Lets simplify this rather erratic thread, all you need to do is locate the missing sockets and your problem is solved. Theres no point moaning about holes in the walls as im sure you would benefit from the missing sockets.

 

[Naz]

Will - apologies for the erratic nature of the thread.

I will be finding another electrician to come and do the shower/ water heater and get him to do a proper test on the whole circuit.

in the mean time, to make it "safer", I have removed the outgoing leg on sockets 10 and 11, taped them up and left in socket, that way i know that in the meantime I don't have any live wires in the wall and the electric can be used while tiling etc takes place.

In summary, I therefore now have 2 radials feeding off the same fuse at the CPU (the original IN and OUT live wires from the ring have now become OUT and OUT at the fuse)

I appreciate this may result in loading issues, but we will only be using one socket at a time for now.

I just have to decide weather i want to take down walls etc or retro fit a 2.5mm between sockets 10 and 11 to complete the ring.

 

[Des 56]

At least you are aware of the issue and can use and/or take action to maintain safety
If you let the tiling go ahead,I suppose that is the decision on the circuit finalised for you

 

[mickfred]

And check you MCB rating

 

[elsparko]

you only need to get 1 cable in to make it a ring, so why not just take out hatches and replace missing leg of cable

not exactly a major job

 

[Octopus]

I just have to decide whether i want to take down walls etc or retro fit a 2.5mm between sockets 10 and 11 to complete the ring.

I would get a spark to guide you with this ...........

 

[Naz]

The worrying thing is that a qualified certified electrician simply checked the plugs all had power and said "the ring must not have any breaks as all the plugs work"...then left me fot 2 weeks with live wires in the wall... i had no idea what a ring was at the time but some simple background reading outlined this, ..Also I now know that even if he doesnt have the testing equipment, in order to check the ring doesnt have breaks, all he had to do was drop one of the legs at the consumer unit and check the the live leaving the unit was actually returning in the dropped leg.

We also had issues when wiring up a double switch.. i had to tell him he needs a link cable and that was the reason why the lighting circuit was stopping after the first light.

Poor guy just paid 7k for get qualified, he is a very nice guy who i think might be out of his depth. Suppose with time on the job he will pick up these issues. Its a good job i was able to point out some of the issues, even though im not an electrician..

 

[DPG]

said "the ring must not have any breaks as all the plugs work"...then left me fot 2 weeks with live wires in the wall...

We also had issues when wiring up a double switch.. i had to tell him he needs a link cable and that was the reason why the lighting circuit was stopping after the first light.

With this level of knowledge he should not be taking on paid work in people's homes. Some people aren't aware of their limitations unfortunately.

 

[Octopus]

^^ who was he registered with?

Elecsa
Napit
NICEIC
Stroma

You should voice your concerns to the relevant one about their ability

but it could simply be he's not registered .... then you should get onto Trading Standards

 

[Michael James thomas]

That's the trouble with 2nd fixing someone elses work how many times has a plasterer filled a box or boarded over one then u go back it's hard enough remembering ur own work Personally I'd look for a place in between the leg with 1 in and the closest socket from other leg and in between those 2 there will be somewhere a socket would be handy chances are thats where it is .Or if it a Friday afternoon just put each leg into it's own 16 A echo or whatever and make sure u disconnect the outgoing cable on end of each leg and Get to pub

 

[Kevy]

Stick a tone on one cable and use your amp to find the approximate location of the errant cable(s) in the wall before you start smashing random holes with your hammer...