Ring main become 2 radials

[Naz]

Electrical ring circuit

The electricalian came and did the second fix. But we werent sure if all the wires had been bought through the plaster board.

All the sockets work, but we wanted to make sure there are no wires hiding in the walls.. we tested by disconnecting one of the 2 lives going into the fuse.. when we did this we tested the 11 sockets ..they all worked except the one just as you walk in the LR.. when we switch the lives at the fuse, the one in the LR room now works but the other 10 stops working.. this tells us that we have again unintensionally created two radial circuits both ending with an exposed live wire in the wall somewhere...1 radial has 1 socket .. and the other radial has the other 10.. and we have a break between socket 10 and 11.. any suggestions how to resolve?

Is it be to remove the outgoing cable in the single radial.. and then find where the rouge outgoing wire is in the other 10 sockets..

 

[Octopus]

Did this electrician give you a certificate?

He should have containing all the test results

DIY fiddling is not recommended

 

[Des 56]

Its not the done thing to perform tests by switching the power on and seeing what becomes live,then disconnecting and seeing what becomes dead
Testing can and should be done prior to energising a circuit

If you are a electrician you will know this
If you are not then its best to bite the bullet and find one

 

[Naz]

No as we he has not finished the job.. shower needs to be installed and water heater..

I asked him to get the lights and siockets working..then come back when the bathroom is tiles..

He is newly qualified.

He said to turn the ring off for now while he thinks about how to go about it.

 

[Octopus]

Electrical ring circuit

The electricalian came and did the second fix. But we werent sure if all the wires had been bought through the plaster board.

All the sockets work, but we wanted to make sure there are no wires hiding in the walls.. we tested by disconnecting one of the 2 lives going into the fuse.. when we did this we tested the 11 sockets ..they all worked except the one just as you walk in the LR.. when we switch the lives at the fuse, the one in the LR room now works but the other 10 stops working.. this tells us that we have again unintensionally created two radial circuits both ending with an exposed live wire in the wall somewhere...1 radial has 1 socket .. and the other radial has the other 10.. and we have a break between socket 10 and 11.. any suggestions how to resolve?

Is it be to remove the outgoing cable in the single radial.. and then find where the rouge outgoing wire is in the other 10 sockets..

So why have you given me an “old” ?

Very odd

 

[Octopus]

duplicate deleted

 

[ferg]

Scrolling on a phone or tablet probably.

 

[Octopus]

Basic dead testing is required, and should be completed on every circuit prior to doing live testing

Nothing else is acceptable or safe

 

[mickfred]

Go fishing

 

[Naz]

Des - yes im happy to let an electrician do it. Its a garden annex and i will need a certificate for the council anyway so no getting away from that.

The electrician i have in literially qualified 2 months ago.


He charges by the hour so just trying to get views on how best he should go about it. The electrician that did the first fix cut the 2.5 at the location of the sockets. Then when the plaster board was put on care was not taken to bring all the wires through.. and now ive forgotten where i asked for all the sockets to be.. forst fix was done in may

 

[mickfred]

He must have noticed only one cable in the back box . More likely a loose live in socket 10 or 11. Get you spark back and get him to test correctly . If there is only one cable in one of the sockets then he should have brought it up and not powered up the circuits

 

[buzzlightyear]

The electricalian came and did the second fix. But we werent sure if all the wires had been bought through the plaster board.

All the sockets work, but we wanted to make sure there are no wires hiding in the walls.. we tested by disconnecting one of the 2 lives going into the fuse.. when we did this we tested the 11 sockets ..they all worked except the one just as you walk in the LR.. when we switch the lives at the fuse, the one in the LR room now works but the other 10 stops working.. this tells us that we have again unintensionally created two radial circuits both ending with an exposed live wire in the wall somewhere...1 radial has 1 socket .. and the other radial has the other 10.. and we have a break between socket 10 and 11.. any suggestions how to resolve?

Is it be to remove the outgoing cable in the single radial.. and then find where the rouge outgoing wire is in the other 10 sockets..

one word .chancer.

 

[mickfred]

Nas sorry if am wrong but is there a spark doing this or is this you . Again if am wrong my bad .

 

[buzzlightyear]

op ,what is MCB is in the circuit now?

 

[Naz]

I promise its a sparks..

 

[mickfred]

I know mr light-year I play good cop you can be bad cop

 

[buzzlightyear]

we tested by disconnecting one of the 2 lives going into the fuse..

Nas sorry if am wrong but is there a spark doing this or is this you

yeah.

 

[Naz]

Mikefred

Your comments about a loose live.

The issue is i think there os a socket 12 and maybe even 13 behond the walls with the 2.5 ready to be put into the sockets

The sockets only work as i believe it has stopped being a ring corcuit and become 2 radials with 2 lives at the end..somewhere in the walls

 

[Naz]

Mikefred

Your comments about a loose live.

The issue is i think there os a socket 12 and maybe even 13 behond the walls with the 2.5 ready to be put into the sockets

The sockets only work as i believe it has stopped being a ring corcuit and become 2 radials with 2 lives at the end..somewhere in the walls

 

[mickfred]

I know mr light-year I play good cop you can be bad cop

 

[Naz]

I said "we" because he needed me to che k the sockets while he disconnected at the board. Anyway.. i have no reason to pretend here..

 

[buzzlightyear]

I know mr light-year I play good cop you can be bad cop

no ,the idea is the op is fishing how to do it .but go ahead good cop.

 

[mickfred]

Okay thlhat makes more sense so it not socketd 1to10 and then 11 . It's 1 to 10 then 13 with 2socketd missing. Again get him back people make mistake and the fact it been noticed means it can be fixed . He may be new , but part of learning is fixing his mistakes . Again he may point to whoever should have pulled the cables though and blame them but he was the one who never tested it

 

[mickfred]

Mr good cop if you please

 

[buzzlightyear]

Again get him back people make mistake and the fact it been noticed means it can be fixed . He may be new

what learning on the job from this post .me don't think so .

 

[Naz]

I will be getting him back.

Yes.. so if the first electician hadnt cut the loops then 12 and 13 wouldnt matter and id leave it as i dont want more holea in my new walls. The issue is that now if i turn the ring on i will have live wores in the walls somewhere.

So im going to tell him that ther is no need to find the missig 2...instead, socket 11 should have one live coming in from the board, and a dead cable comim in from 12 or 13.... so if he dicomments the dead one coming in from 12 or 13... then that solves half the problem.. the other half of the problem is in one of the other 10 working sockets the is a live wire leaving it that ends in not in a socket but in the wall somewhere..

 

[buzzlightyear]

op ,IMO me thinks that looking at this post ,that the said spark might again might should know what he is doing .but there again .

so if the first electician

how many sparks did the job ?

 

[mickfred]

Yep that's the issue . Let him sort it out don't try to fix it yourself

 

[Naz]

Maybe i should correct my numbering

1 to 10 works

13 works

11 and 12 are behind a wall somewhere with the 2.5mm cut

A solution is to make to radials

1 to 10 on one and 13 on the other.. the issue is 10 has a live feed going out of it (that should go to socket 11 but instead goes is behind plasterboard somewherel) and socket 13 has a live going out of it that should go to 12 but again goes behind a wall somewhere

 

[Naz]

Buzz.. 2 electricians

one did the first fix..and now this quy doing the second

 

[buzzlightyear]

Maybe i should correct my numbering

1 to 10 works

13 works

11 and 12 are behind a wall somewhere with the 2.5mm cut

A solution is to make to radials

1 to 10 on one and 13 on the other.. the issue is 10 has a live feed going out of it (that should go to socket 11 but instead goes is behind plasterboard somewherel) and socket 13 has a live going out of it that should go to 12 but again goes behind a wall somewhere

I see the fishing rods out ,but his fish don't bite .

 

[MJPD29]

You have the right idea testing the circuit but the way your going about it isn't correct and I'm not sure you have the right gear. Might be best to get a different electrician in to have a look

 

[MJPD29]

You have the right idea testing the circuit but the way your going about it isn't correct and I'm not sure you have the right gear. Might be best to get a different electrician in to have a look

 

[buzzlightyear]

Buzz.. 2 electricians

what was their names ,tom. dick now where's harry .

 

[buzzlightyear]

try trade and standards if you have no joy, I'm out .

 

[mickfred]

Your spark no 2 did not figure of 8 test it (or test it at all) . It's his problem to sort . You can get him to change it two radial if you want . But a radial with one socket is not ideal and mcbs need changing most likely

 

[Naz]

what was their names ,tom. dick now where's harry .

try trade and standards if you have no joy, I'm o

Your spark no 2 did not figure of 8 test it (or test it at all) . It's his problem to sort . You can get him to change it two radial if you want . But a radial with one socket is not ideal and mcbs need changing most likely

Like i said sparks to charges by the hour. So even though its his problem to solve, ill end up payig for it. And its also my fault as i should have known where all the sockets were..

I could get hom to kill socket 13 alltogether, and then its just a matter of getting him to go round socketa 1 to 10 to see which cable out is going into thin air. If he diconnects that one then at least i wont have a live hidden behind a plaster board somewhere

 

[mickfred]

This is my last comment . You have paid for a safe install , he has not done it. If it was my mistake I would be glad just to be allowed to fix it and not a lecture of how I could have killed some one or burnt the house down . Again if it was me I would be saying sorry and dropping a few quid for your time not asking to be paid for mine . I don't know if you have done this or not and I cant tell you what or how to do it but the MCB needs looking at (most likely a 32a and for a radial in 2.5 will not be suitable)

 

[buzzlightyear]

Just to clarify did you not want to pay for the said spark .charging you by the hour considering you said you should have known where the sockets were.i rest my case.

 

[123]

So why have you given me an “old” ?

Very odd

I wouldn't worry. @buzzlightyear has given them a bad spelling which has to be the funniest rating of the year so far

 

[123]

@Naz why is the original Spark no longer on the job?

 

[Naz]

Just to clarify did you not want to pay for the said spark .charging you by the hour considering you said you should have known where the sockets were.i rest my case.

I have paid him.. i said i cant completly blame him as i have got him in to do the second fix ...its not his fault that i cant tell him where the cables are behind the wall.

Granted, that when turning on the ring circuit he should have cheacked that it was actually a ring and the live that is leaving the consumer unit is actually reuturning and not simply creating two rafial circuits each finishing in the plasterboard somewhere

Anyway buzz... you seem to like taking the p here. ... i am not an electrician (im actaully a banker, with a maths degree) .. nor am i trying to be.. i have got an electrician in.. an electrician who tells me that he has just paid 7k fees to get qualifited...a nice guy....as mick said people make mistakes thats life .. if i was doing a cowboy job myself, i wouldnt be asking here for your opinion.. id simply pull out the live wites leaving the last socket in each of the 2 radials kowing that there are no live wires in the wall..but like i said im not an electrican so thought id ask you.. and feed back any tips to the electrican who is starting out in his career.

 

[Naz]

@Naz why is the original Spark no longer on the job?

I fell out woth him.. during the first fix, he left telling us to plasterboard the ceiling without pulling through the cables for for the lights.. on starting the second fix he complained that he couldnt find the cables.. a problem i told him might happen when he originally instructed us to plasterboard without pulling the cables through..

 

[elsparko]

I fell out woth him.. during the first fix, he left telling us to plasterboard the ceiling without pulling through the cables for for the lights.. on starting the second fix he complained that he couldnt find the cables.. a problem i told him might happen when he originally instructed us to plasterboard without pulling the cables through..

fill me a bin bag of £50s and ill come sort it for you

 

[gazdkw82]

What an odd post.

 

[Octopus]

So in summary:

Its a garden annex being constructed / converted for domestic use

Spark A first fixed -
OP is doing the building work
Spark B has started 2nd fix
No evidence of any testing
Socket circuit has "continuity" issues

Lord knows what the rest is like ? The submain?

This falls under part P of the Building regs so you need an EIC and Part P cert

Sounds to me like the OP needs a 3rd spark to perform surgery with a hammer on the property to locate the cables ......

Good luck with that!

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

Oh dear,what a thread.Your main problem is now to sack the present electrician(I use that word loosely) and get someone who knows how to use an insulation resistance meter and can find the fault by testing and a methodical approach on how it's wired.
You paying a 5WWW to just switch on and then scratch his head is not helping your bank balance or your families safety. That's why you pay someone to do it because they have the experience to do the job.If your present joker was decent he should hold up his hands and say he hasn't got the experience and stop charging you for his incompetence.

 

[buzzlightyear]

This post is like cludo ,now who was killed in the litrybrary !

 

[JOURNEYMAN]

This sounds like a poor communication problem between whoever is doing the building works and the electrician. It's perfectly acceptable to install cables in ceiling ready to retrieve after plasterboarding and skimming provided that the location of said cables has been carefully noted . As others have said, the 2nd electrician should have dead tested prior to energizing to ensure continuity, ins resistance, polarity etc. I would advise that as project manager the OP finds and pays a reputable electrician to carry out the remedial works before it gets further out of hand.

 

[LankyWill]

Lets simplify this rather erratic thread, all you need to do is locate the missing sockets and your problem is solved. Theres no point moaning about holes in the walls as im sure you would benefit from the missing sockets.