Ring main.

[Pete999]

I have also heard of vast Tree circuits in european countrys maybe this is just a myth?

not from the MCB but one run to a junction box from MCB then branches off in every direction - power Radial not lighting can anyone confirm this?

Yes I can confirm, especially in the former USSR, and former satellite countries

 

[Mark Wright]

Thanks
from this french web site suggests more one connection into MCB - by twisting but recommends wago

Plusieurs cables à raccoder sur un disjoncteur

Bonjour à tous, Je vais commencer l'électricité de ma maison. J'ai une relative connaissance théorique dans ce domaine, nettement moins dans la...

translate.google.co.uk

I will look at some russian stuff later

 

[DPG]

Twisting- uuurghhhh .

 

[Mark Wright]

and this site Google Translate - https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=&sl=fr&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fschema-electrique.net%2Fschema-electrique-de-prise-de-courant-norme-et-cablage-du-circuit.html

two feeds into one MCB
Star Radial from one JB
[automerge]1593257112[/automerge]
check this out!!!!
the octopus thats brilliant

Préparation et réalisation d'une pieuvre électrique en autoconstruction

Comment calculer, préparer et réaliser vos pieuvres électriques en fonction de vos plans éclairages et à l'aide d'un fichier Exel

entraide.asteolelec.fr

[automerge]1593257969[/automerge]
test

;

 

[Pete999]

Thanks
from this french web site suggests more one connection into MCB - by twisting but recommends wago

Plusieurs cables à raccoder sur un disjoncteur

Bonjour à tous, Je vais commencer l'électricité de ma maison. J'ai une relative connaissance théorique dans ce domaine, nettement moins dans la...

translate.google.co.uk

I will look at some russian stuff later

I was supervising Sov Sparkies during the rewire of leased property to be used as leetings for Embassy staff including me and mine, we use UK kit but had to concede to the Sov way of doing things, so 2.5 from DB to sockets on a 20A Radial, did try to tutor them on the UK way, but banging my head on a brick wall springs to mind, they hadnever seen or used an RCD before I introduced them on the install.

 

[ipf]

Twisting- uuurghhhh .

That sounds like a hernia...…!

 

[Mark Wright]

I was supervising Sov Sparkies during the rewire of leased property to be used as leetings for Embassy staff including me and mine, we use UK kit but had to concede to the Sov way of doing things, so 2.5 from DB to sockets on a 20A Radial, did try to tutor them on the UK way, but banging my head on a brick wall springs to mind, they hadnever seen or used an RCD before I introduced them on the install.

Thank you for your info - personally I don't object to some of the european ways, I'm sure they think the Ring is a bit strange - but I think in Russia they use those twist connectors like in America and I don't like them, but there are some good Russian/German web pages on electrical drawings.

 

[Pete999]

Thank you for your info - personally I don't object to some of the european ways, I'm sure they think the Ring is a bit strange - but I think in Russia they use those twist connectors like in America and I don't like them, but there are some good Russian/German web pages on electrical drawings.

None of my Guys used fire nuts I provided strip connectors (before Wagos) and Wagos when they were introduced, used a lot of Wagos, reckon they were pocketing some here and there for PJs they were not paid much by the way, had to limit the supply bit like a drug dealer lol, then the Sovs opened a B and Q, that was interesting to say the least.

 

[Mark Wright]

Yes Wago addiction is one of the biggest problems of our time

 

[Pete999]

Yes Wago addiction is one of the biggest problems of our time

Psssst £ 20 a packet plus my outlay, no middle man.
[automerge]1593269891[/automerge]

Yes Wago addiction is one of the biggest problems of our time

As an aside, still got my Sov test lamp, a classic bit of kit, no pics cus it's in me ex Sov box in the Garage, what's the make of those voltage testers? Stienel I think, I ordered about 30 of the cheapest one for my Lads, baskets were flogging them, still B and Q solved that issue, we were allowed 20Amps per dwelling, had an electric fire for emergencies, plugged I, took the main fuse out (don't ask about discrimination) it don't exist in a Communist state) had to call Mr fixit cus I wasn't allowed to touch the mains for fear of the Gulag, cost me my Steinel tester, still never mind eh? My Mrs was chewing he finger nails in anticipation of a visit from the Keith George Brown thugs. lol

 

[ebee]

I was talking ref our regs BS7671 only. other countries will differ but Europeans will have many similarities with ours although still some different quirks.

Trees are, in actuallity, the same whether they are all in the fuseway or in joint boxes (including ceiling roses, they are just a more pretty variant of a joint box really) .

Some of our lot get a bit hung up thinking that whilst a tree might be OK if the first split is from a joint box yet not at the fuseway, which is not logical if you think about it but it`s the wat they`ve been brought up.
Yet others seem to think a radial must to 1,2,3,4,5 ..... to N (N being the total number) in a straight chain.
Whilst more elegant and also easier to test, it is not mandated, just in the same way that a 1 ring ring final is not mandated.
Lassoos again likewise.
Just because something is not listed in the OSG (standard circuits) or the informative appendices of BS7671 does not mean that they do not conform to the regs.

 

[Mark Wright]

Psssst £ 20 a packet plus my outlay, no middle man.
[automerge]1593269891[/automerge]

As an aside, still got my Sov test lamp, a classic bit of kit, no pics cus it's in me ex Sov box in the Garage

I have have a old(60s) Readers Diggest that shows you how to make your own continuity tester with this and your test lamp could really be something beautiful.

 

[Pete999]

I have have a old(60s) Readers Diggest that shows you how to make your own continuity tester with this and your test lamp could really be something beautiful.

Does a lamp holder, a Sov Lamp and some wire help you. No you can't have it before you ask means so much to me, and I'm a tool tart as well.
[automerge]1593270802[/automerge]

I have have a old(60s) Readers Diggest that shows you how to make your own continuity tester with this and your test lamp could really be something beautiful.

It is to me as much as my Sov tools

 

[Mark Wright]

I was talking ref our regs BS7671 only. other countries will differ but Europeans will have many similarities with ours although still some different quirks.

Trees are, in actuallity, the same whether they are all in the fuseway or in joint boxes (including ceiling roses, they are just a more pretty variant of a joint box really) .

Some of our lot get a bit hung up thinking that whilst a tree might be OK if the first split is from a joint box yet not at the fuseway, which is not logical if you think about it but it`s the wat they`ve been brought up.
Yet others seem to think a radial must to 1,2,3,4,5 ..... to N (N being the total number) in a straight chain.
Whilst more elegant and also easier to test, it is not mandated, just in the same way that a 1 ring ring final is not mandated.
Lassoos again likewise.
Just because something is not listed in the OSG (standard circuits) or the informative appendices of BS7671 does not mean that they do not conform to the regs.

BS 7671 is nearly word for word from IEC it appears and your probably find more complex detail about Radials on Euro sites from what i've found today anything over Two cable in the MCB is not really designed to hold more that this.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Thanks
from this french web site suggests more one connection into MCB - by twisting but recommends wago

Plusieurs cables à raccoder sur un disjoncteur

Bonjour à tous, Je vais commencer l'électricité de ma maison. J'ai une relative connaissance théorique dans ce domaine, nettement moins dans la...

translate.google.co.uk

I will look at some russian stuff later

That is against the French regulations no matter what the site or the people on it say.

 

[pc1966]

That is against the French regulations no matter what the site or the people on it say.

Presumably the Wago-on-a-rail option is acceptable though? The issue is not having multiple wires in to the MCB's cable clamp?

 

[Mark Wright]

The other link also shows 2 into one mcb - I don't have any idea if it complies or not but after searching a number of french sites(not easy for me I barley speak english) I goth the impression that 2 maximum, some forums saying MCB not designed for more than 2 cables - again I'm not saying it complies in anyway.
( I assume there French and not Belgium etc Don't know if there is much difference in there regs?)

In America a MCB must have rating for Double Tapping but seems to be totally different connection.
[automerge]1593274801[/automerge]
ill have a look in L'installation electrique at some point.

 

[Electrics]

I goth the impression that 2 maximum, some forums saying MCB not designed for more than 2 cables - again I'm not saying it complies in anyway.

I've never seen the regs but a famous French electrician did a book based on the regs for DIY'ers and in his 2011 copy he shows several pics with 3 separate lighting runs into one MCB, so i'm presuming you were definitely allowed to do it at some point.

Having said that, i've seen older French electrics and it doesn't appear there were any regs at all that were being followed if the work was anything to go by.

 

[Mark Wright]

can you try and find the name?
L'installation electrique is the most popular I would say great books.
[automerge]1593288355[/automerge]
there is this book in English by a English guy, never read it.

Electricity in your French house

If you own a house in France or if you are thinking of buying one, an understanding of the French domestic electrical rules and regulations is invaluable. Whether you wish to reassure yourself that the electrical system has been installed correctly, extend an existing system, or if you are...

books.google.co.uk

 

[Mike Johnson]

"Electricity in your French House" is so out of date and wrong in a number of places, and not just the text.

L'installation èlectrique is by Gallauziaux and Fedullo published by Eyrolles updated 2017:
View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Linstallation-%C3%A9lectrique-Thierry-Gallauziaux/dp/2212674945/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=l%27installation+electrique&qid=1593295588&sr=8-1


[automerge]1593295431[/automerge]

Presumably the Wago-on-a-rail option is acceptable though? The issue is not having multiple wires in to the MCB's cable clamp?

No the issue is not having multiple circuits protected by one MCB, the problem in France is that anyone can do their own thing in their property, there is no legislation to stop them, it's only if the property is let short or long term that any type of check is carried out, this also applies on re-sale, but as with all of these things it's a tick box exercise carried out by non electricians, the only time a domestic building is checked is if it requires a new installation, then the Consul will check, this may only consist of one socket and one lighting circuit, but if they conform to the Regulations then the power will be connected.

 

[Mike Johnson]

After further investigation I am now going to have to contradict myself, it seem you can have two circuits into one MCB, but only under special conditions, they being two circuits of two remote switched sockets in the same room and marked up as such, presumably for table lamps? It also says "This convention is not applicable with reciprocating circuits" make of that what you will?

 

[Mark Wright]

"This convention is not applicable with reciprocating circuits" make of that what you will?

Same author as BS 7671 ??

 

[Electrics]

the problem in France is that anyone can do their own thing in their property, there is no legislation to stop them, it's only if the property is let short or long term that any type of check is carried out, this also applies on re-sale, but as with all of these things it's a tick box exercise carried out by non electricians, the only time a domestic building is checked is if it requires a new installation, then the Consul will check, this may only consist of one socket and one lighting circuit, but if they conform to the Regulations then the power will be connected.

I've just sold my French house and you're right - the only check done was the diagnostique guy sticking some machine into the sockets and that was it.

It's funny though - with all our legislation and rules and schemes etc European countries still insist we're 'unregulated' compared to them and their standards. Bit batty if you ask me.

 

[Mike Johnson]

They look down their respective nose's at the UK because of the use of Ring Mains and only just insisting on two RCD's in our DB's. Try telling a French Electrician that it's now called a Final Ring Circuit and see how profound the shrug of the shoulders would be.

I think the French are trying to tighten up on the Diagnostique, I have read somewhere they have to push the test button on the RCD's. What they most seem to be interested in now is Equipotential Bonding to the service's and bathrooms, but at least it's become a three page Diagnostique tick list.

 

[Mark Wright]

I sent a message to hager asking how many cables can be terminated into a MCB and here is detailed reply LOL!

Good Afternoon

You can only fit one cable into a MCB

Technical Support

Hager Ltd

So no more Rings

 

[DPG]

I sent a message to hager asking how many cables can be terminated into a MCB and here is detailed reply LOL!

Good Afternoon

You can only fit one cable into a MCB

Technical Support

Hager Ltd

So no more Rings

Can't believe their tech support dept said that. I would be taking that a bit further.

 

[pc1966]

You can only fit one cable into a MCB

What about both ends of the same cable?

 

[Mark Wright]

What about both ends of the same cable?

Yeah why not a mini ring

 

[Pete999]

Yeah why not a mini ring

What's a "mini ring"?

 

[Mark Wright]

 

[LastManOnline]

I'm not saying I would do this because I wouldn't install like this, but I am going to play devils advocate.

Which regulations does such an arrangement breach?

And how would two ring final circuits installed in accordance with the regulations connected to the same 32A MCB be dangerous?

As I say I wouldn't do it, except as a temporary measure to restore supply, so I'm just curious about the thought process behind the statements.

You are correct. It would, nt be dangerous as the mcb will simply trip when overloaded. However, would it be good practice? No. Would it likely cause inconvenience for the homeowner? Almost certainly at some point
[automerge]1596397821[/automerge]

What's a "mini ring"?

Here's to "Ring circuits" one of the dinaosaurs of the electrical industry. Don't wish to offend anyone but having operated in one of possibly only 2 countries that actually use this wiring method I would hope that threads like this speed up its demise and finally put it out of its misery. It never deserved centre stage and was never going to be able to upstage its bigger brother on the world stage.. the Radial circuit. That said I have used it occasionally. It can in certain circumstances be a "get out of jail card".

 

[Mike Johnson]

Here's to "Ring circuits" one of the dinaosaurs of the electrical industry. Don't wish to offend anyone but having operated in one of possibly only 2 countries that actually use this wiring method I would hope that threads like this speed up its demise and finally put it out of its misery. It never deserved centre stage and was never going to be able to upstage its bigger brother on the world stage.. the Radial circuit. That said I have used it occasionally. It can in certain circumstances be a "get out of jail card".

Ohh Edmond you are going to get some flack for that comment, although I agree.

 

[LastManOnline]

Ohh Edmond you are going to get some flack for that comment, although I agree.

You got my back Mike! Bring it on!

 

[pc1966]

You can save some effort by just going through this thread:

Why does the UK use rings for sockets? > on Free Electrical Advice - Electricians Forums

Find Why does the UK use rings for sockets? Advice and Help. How-to Why does the UK use rings for sockets? in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations advice boards on Electricians Forums. Why does the UK use rings for sockets? on ElectriciansForums.net Electrical Advice Forum.

www.electriciansforums.net

 

[LastManOnline]

You can save some effort by just going through this thread:

Why does the UK use rings for sockets? > on Free Electrical Advice - Electricians Forums

Find Why does the UK use rings for sockets? Advice and Help. How-to Why does the UK use rings for sockets? in the Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations advice boards on Electricians Forums. Why does the UK use rings for sockets? on ElectriciansForums.net Electrical Advice Forum.

www.electriciansforums.net

That is a good thread actually. I appreciate the arguments for and against. I should say that I like you served my time in an environment where rings circuits were common. But they have fallen out of favour for the simple reason we find radials more advantageous. Now to those who have a preference for the ring circuit, all the best to them. Our regs still allow ring circuits but there are increasing restrictions on their use. I have not seen a ring circuit installed on a new build in the last 30 years. Its unspoken, but overhere there is a feeling that the clock is ticking on them.However as I mentioned they have a role to be play. On an occasion recently (installation with poor electrical design) we combined 2 radials to make a ring and it solved a major headache. But it's in that role I have always seen the ring, as a support, rathar than the main act

 

[pc1966]

That is a good thread actually. I appreciate the arguments for and against. I should say that I like you served my time in an environment where rings circuits were common. But they have fallen out of favour for the simple reason we find radials more advantageous.

Advantageous in what way?

Now to those who have a preference for the ring circuit, all the best to them. Our regs still allow ring circuits but there are increasing restrictions on their use. I have not seen a ring circuit installed on a new build in the last 30 years. Its unspoken, but over here there is a feeling that the clock is ticking on them.However as I mentioned they have a role to be play. On an occasion recently (installation with poor electrical design) we combined 2 radials to make a ring and it solved a major headache. But it's in that role I have always seen the ring, as a support, rathar than the main act

Is this part of a move to closer alignment with EU wiring practice (similar to your T&E going for equal-size CPCs)?

Or any other specific reason(s) for the preference?

 

[Vortigern]

Here's to "Ring circuits" one of the dinaosaurs of the electrical industry. Don't wish to offend anyone but having operated in one of possibly only 2 countries that actually use this wiring method I would hope that threads like this speed up its demise and finally put it out of its misery

Ok now you've got my dander up! Ring circuits will probably disappear eventually. But the reason is not some technical reason it is because of the dumbing down of the population in general. As regards the origins of the ring circuit it was maybe ahead of it's time ecologically as it was to save copper, ergo the natural environment. As you know I am an advocate of the ring circuit as per the other thread you referred to. Perhaps you are an agent provocateur insidiously dripping non reasons for getting rid of the ring circuit? It seems you don't like them with a vengeance. Which is a bit strange not to be dispassionate about a bit of wire and solely concentrate on the science and reasoning of each circuit type. Both have their merits and application, you just jolly well leave our ring circuits alone chappy.

 

[Risteard]

I support and endorse the ring final circuit.

 

[Mike Johnson]

In line with EU practice, Dual pole MCB's and radial circuits will halve the time taken for inspections and fault finding.

Dives for cover.

 

[pc1966]

In line with EU practice, Dual pole MCB's and radial circuits will halve the time taken for inspections and fault finding.

Dives for cover.

[ Citation required ]

 

[nicebutdim]

In line with EU practice, Dual pole MCB's and radial circuits will halve the time taken for inspections and fault finding.

Dives for cover.

Does EU practice mandate that radial circuits run simply from point to point? If any branches are permitted then surely inspection and fault finding becomes less straightforward.

I ask this because I remember reading about some European countries where it was common to find radial circuits that branched off in many directions - sort of like a tree.

 

[Mike Johnson]

It is not recommended or detailed in the norms.

 

[James]

I stayed in a Spanish rental for 2 weeks on holiday.
All the lightning circuits were just a single run of live, looped round all the switches.
The switched lives went off to there respective light pendants and instead of running a neutral to the fittings, they just connected the neutral of the fitting to the nearest bit of structural metalwork

 

[Mike Johnson]

Obviously the person who did that was wearing a Stetson.

 

[Pete999]

I stayed in a Spanish rental for 2 weeks on holiday.
All the lightning circuits were just a single run of live, looped round all the switches.
The switched lives went off to there respective light pendants and instead of running a neutral to the fittings, they just connected the neutral of the fitting to the nearest bit of structural metalwork

At what voltage?

 

[Mike Johnson]

As far as I know Spain is 220/230v @ 50htz.

 

[LastManOnline]

[ Citation required ]

Hi Guys. Just wanted to say I have read your replies so far with interest.This morning am a bit tied for time and want to give a reply to

Advantageous in what way?


Is this part of a move to closer alignment with EU wiring practice (similar to your T&E going for equal-size CPCs)?

Or any other specific reason(s) for the preference?

I am not aware of any moves to reduce use of rings in order to more closely harmonise with Europe (the increased size of the CPC in t&e was I understand). I think the appeal of the radial over the ring swung the balance. I personally find them simpler from an installation and testing point of view. The wiring saved in the omitted leg of the ring in many cases pays for the extra mcb. The customer now has 2 circuits of 20 amp rather than 1of 32. Radials not easily overloaded.
What's not to like?
[automerge]1596457633[/automerge]

Ok now you've got my dander up! Ring circuits will probably disappear eventually. But the reason is not some technical reason it is because of the dumbing down of the population in general. As regards the origins of the ring circuit it was maybe ahead of it's time ecologically as it was to save copper, ergo the natural environment. As you know I am an advocate of the ring circuit as per the other thread you referred to. Perhaps you are an agent provocateur insidiously dripping non reasons for getting rid of the ring circuit? It seems you don't like them with a vengeance. Which is a bit strange not to be dispassionate about a bit of wire and solely concentrate on the science and reasoning of each circuit type. Both have their merits and application, you just jolly well leave our ring circuits alone chappy.

Interestingly I was on a forum here locally for Irish sparks (cost me 50 euro) and tried to start a debate on some areas of Irish work practices which I felt (still do) could be upgraded. I pointed to the UK and basically said "they are ahead of the curve here, could we learn from that?" The reactions?? Take a guess. I think it's understandable we all get a little protective about our own regs and work practices.
One post kindly suggested I move to the UK.
I think to move forward its important to stand back and look objectively at the accepted norms whatever in whatever environment we are in and ask "is this still acceptable".
Now the ring circuit is in fact a very innovative wiring system which cleverly made use of limited resources getting the maximum out of the minimum of copper. In my view it still has a role to play but in a limited role. By the way my use of the word" dinosaur " was disrespectful and I did, nt intend that.
[automerge]1596457981[/automerge]

Does EU practice mandate that radial circuits run simply from point to point? If any branches are permitted then surely inspection and fault finding becomes less straightforward.

I ask this because I remember reading about some European countries where it was common to find radial circuits that branched off in many directions - sort of like a tree.

I have worked on radials in several countries and they all followed the same loop in, loop out system. To branch of off like a tree is not a system I have seen, but even if they did remember that a radial is never vulnerable to overloading in the way a ring is
[automerge]1596458310[/automerge]

I support and endorse the ring final circuit.

That's fine Risteard. Do you also still "support and endorse" the installation of a 4ft earth rod (as we are both required to install under Irish regs) but as has been demonstrated here on this forum by multiple sparks in multiple posts is actually less than useless?
[automerge]1596459002[/automerge]

As far as I know Spain is 220/230v @ 50htz.

The cotinent all tends to be somewhere between 220 and 240 at 50htz
[automerge]1596459227[/automerge]

I stayed in a Spanish rental for 2 weeks on holiday.
All the lightning circuits were just a single run of live, looped round all the switches.
The switched lives went off to there respective light pendants and instead of running a neutral to the fittings, they just connected the neutral of the fitting to the nearest bit of structural metalwork

That really surprises me. I also stayed in one last year and like you can't resist having a good look at the electrics. I don't open anything up but it looked top notch. Rcbo, s on every circuit too.
Obviously the light switch and inevitable socket in the bathroom but quite honestly I think we here (British Isles) have a, thing or 2,to learn from them here. Now as Mike said "dive for cover"
[automerge]1596459373[/automerge]

In line with EU practice, Dual pole MCB's and radial circuits will halve the time taken for inspections and fault finding.

Dives for cover.

You are spot on here in my view. Did you mean rcbo, s when you mentioned dual pole mcb, s?
[automerge]1596459736[/automerge]

Does EU practice mandate that radial circuits run simply from point to point? If any branches are permitted then surely inspection and fault finding becomes less straightforward.

I ask this because I remember reading about some European countries where it was common to find radial circuits that branched off in many directions - sort of like a tree.

If this "branches of a tree" system interferes in any way with the standard wiring method for a radial circuit, then yes, that would complicate faultfinding. However, while circumstances, might occasionally require a JB to be I stalled between to sockets to branch off for a third, this would be an exception rather than the rule in my exp.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Dual pole MCB's are just that, it would need an RCB as well for the row of MCB's, but you can use multiple RCBO's instead and not need the RCB.

 

[nicebutdim]

I have worked on radials in several countries and they all followed the same loop in, loop out system. To branch of off like a tree is not a system I have seen, but even if they did remember that a radial is never vulnerable to overloading in the way a ring is
[automerge]1596458310[/automerge]


If this "branches of a tree" system interferes in any way with the standard wiring method for a radial circuit, then yes, that would complicate faultfinding. However, while circumstances, might occasionally require a JB to be I stalled between to sockets to branch off for a third, this would be an exception rather than the rule in my exp.

I know little of the practices employed in other countries - in fact I have limited knowledge of UK practices and hoover up information where it is available - but had read threads that mentioned some fairly complex radial circuits. These may have been in very old properties and not the sort of circuit conventially installed, but the subject of easier inspection and testing was raised and I thought it a reasonable question to ask.

The radial/ring debate is something of a fascination for me and my untrained mind can see benefits and drawbacks to both. In general I tend to prefer the idea of radial circuits, but can also see instances where a ring seems the more practical option - one example would be a kitchen or utility room that houses multiple power hungry appliances. Even with the application of diversity there is a good chance of washer, dryer, dishwasher and kettle being used at once and potentially overloading a 20A radial, which I guess is why those rooms tend to be fed from a 32A breaker. Unless my understanding of BS 7671:2018 is flawed, a 32A radial, which is buried in plaster (or conduit in plaster) would need to be run in 6mm and not particularly convenient from the perspective of installation?

 

[Pete999]

I know little of the practices employed in other countries - in fact I have limited knowledge of UK practices and hoover up information where it is available - but had read threads that mentioned some fairly complex radial circuits. These may have been in very old properties and not the sort of circuit conventially installed, but the subject of easier inspection and testing was raised and I thought it a reasonable question to ask.

The radial/ring debate is something of a fascination for me and my untrained mind can see benefits and drawbacks to both. In general I tend to prefer the idea of radial circuits, but can also see instances where a ring seems the more practical option - one example would be a kitchen or utility room that houses multiple power hungry appliances. Even with the application of diversity there is a good chance of washer, dryer, dishwasher and kettle being used at once and potentially overloading a 20A radial, which I guess is why those rooms tend to be fed from a 32A breaker. Unless my understanding of BS 7671:2018 is flawed, a 32A radial, which is buried in plaster (or conduit in plaster) would need to be run in 6mm and not particularly convenient from the perspective of installation?

4MM2 MATE, ,