Socket height regulation in old home

[Emma Pais]

Hello
I am hoping to find a definitive answer to this as heard.
Socket height regulation of 450mm is for new builds only not for old houses. What about renovating old houses for example a basement renovation but in an Edwardian home? What would pass building regs?
Many thanks

 

[Strima]

The rule is for new builds only, renovations do not apply. However the sockets need to be placed at a height that doesn't cause damage to the flex on the plug top, such as older installations where the socket outlets were mounted on skirting boards.

Basically stick them where you want but apply a bit of common sense.

 

[buzzlightyear]

older installations where the socket outlets were mounted on skirting boards.

and depends how high the skirting boards are .

 

[Strima]

and depends how high the skirting boards are .

Very true mate. In Yorkshire we had no money so only had 3 inch boards, in Bath with loads of cash 8 inch boards were common...

 

[Leesparkykent]

Approved document M says for work on an existing building that did not comply with the applicable requirements of the building regulations the building must not be no more unsatisfactory in relation to the requirements than before the work was carried out.

 

[Emma Pais]

Thanks all! Common sense not applied in our basement (all socksts ridicously high ) and was told it was regulation. Wanted to be sure when passing on advise to clients as I am an.interior designer. Thanks again!

 

[telectrix]

Thanks all! Common sense not applied in our basement (all socksts ridicously high ) and was told it was regulation. Wanted to be sure when passing on advise to clients as I am an.interior designer. Thanks again!

View attachment 42920

you might think they are ridiculously high now, but when you get old and decrepit, like me, with a bad back, you'll appreciate not having to bend double to insert a plug. .

 

[littlespark]

New homes are a pain.

Sockets are higher, light switches are lower and around a dozen smoke detectors in every room!
And who's bright idea was thermal insulation? That stuff just throws my cable calculations out the window.... and it itches!

You can get round the sockets on skirting boards causing stress to the flex by mounting them upside down.

Disclaimer;- Saturday morning irony

 

[Wilko]

Very nice room, that outlet can be relocated with a bit of work. Usually see ones that are a bit too low. Pic is for illustration purposes, not my work .

 

[Strima]

Very nice room, that outlet can be relocated with a bit of work. Usually see ones that are a bit too low. Pic is for illustration purposes, not my work .

View attachment 42921

Way too tidy. If that was me there'd be cracks halfway up the wall where the plaster had popped and only the paint is holding it in place.

 

[telectrix]

being able to cut a box in without it looking like a builder/plumber had done it, is an artform on it's own.

 

[johnduffell]

Stubble distinction and didn'td affect the op but technically it's not just new builds that part m it applies to, but new dwellings of any kind. So that would include any kind of conversion from barn, shop, warehouse, pub, etc.
Al new accessories in an extension can be matched with existing heights.
We have one light switch in our 4 bed house that's at 1200, all the rest are arm pit height. I believe the door hinge was reversed at some point.

 

[suffolkspark]

Id be more annoyed at the fact the socket is wonkey never mind the height!

 

[Tony Reidy]

Hello
I am hoping to find a definitive answer to this as heard.
Socket height regulation of 450mm is for new builds only not for old houses. What about renovating old houses for example a basement renovation but in an Edwardian home? What would pass building regs?
Many thanks

It's still not a new build but it's not a bad idea to bring it up to latest regs

 

[telectrix]

fitting sockets @ 450mm is a good idea. light switches @ 1200mm is bad as children can reach them. then again, children pre-teens should be kept in a cage. once 13, then sheds are useful.

 

[FatAlan]

Just renovated my house and put the sockets where I wanted. Biggest problem was getting them level with each other when first fixing the back boxes into bare sand stone.

 

[Zerax]

Very true mate. In Yorkshire we had no money so only had 3 inch boards, in Bath with loads of cash 8 inch boards were common...

Mine are only 2 ½"...

 

[telectrix]

Mine are only 2 ½"...

is that your skirting boards, or yoyr childen

 

[45140]

Given that the great majority of items requiring to be plugged into a socket are generally used higher up that the floor - computers, radios, TVs, stereo sets, Satellite, electric clock radios, etc. I think it would make more sense to set an "optimum" level for sockets, say 1000mm or thereabouts. Low sockets as someone has already pointed out are difficult for not only the elderly but also anyone with a mobility issue - I for example recently tore all the ligaments in one knee and you would not imagine what an impact that has for reaching down and bending over even now some three months afterwards.

Higher level sockets would also remove the problems with small children poking things in.

Assuming also that the cables are run in the ceiling void there would also financial savings to be gained as well as associated environmental benefits.

Just me or do others agree ?

 

[Pete999]

Given that the great majority of items requiring to be plugged into a socket are generally used higher up that the floor - computers, radios, TVs, stereo sets, Satellite, electric clock radios, etc. I think it would make more sense to set an "optimum" level for sockets, say 1000mm or thereabouts. Low sockets as someone has already pointed out are difficult for not only the elderly but also anyone with a mobility issue - I for example recently tore all the ligaments in one knee and you would not imagine what an impact that has for reaching down and bending over even now some three months afterwards.

Higher level sockets would also remove the problems with small children poking things in.

Assuming also that the cables are run in the ceiling void there would also financial savings to be gained as well as associated environmental benefits.

Just me or do others agree ?

What Voltages do you work with in your job 45140

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Very true mate. In Yorkshire we had no money so only had 3 inch boards, in Bath with loads of cash 8 inch boards were common...

I recently fitted some sockets in the actual skirting board with the backbox recessed in the wall behind, made good use of the multi tool, feeding cables down behind skirting board to cavity under floor. the skirting was 25cm high, was in a grade 1 listed property. deepest skirting board was just over a foot deep going up stairs and landings, that was on in a old private school building that was being converted to flats.

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Very nice room, that outlet can be relocated with a bit of work. Usually see ones that are a bit too low. Pic is for illustration purposes, not my work .

View attachment 42921

That’s impressive.

 

[Midwest]

 

[45140]

What Voltages do you work with in your job 45140

25kV, 600/400 volt AC, 650-750V DC. Is that relevant ?

 

[Pete999]

25kV, 600/400 volt AC, 650-750V DC. Is that relevant ?

No just interested as I was involved in HV work at one time, as an AP HV and AP LV. Thanks. No other reason, didn't mean to be nosy.

 

[Intoelectrics]

being able to cut a box in without it looking like a builder/plumber had done it, is an artform on it's own.

If its an old building with a good 1" or more plaster/render then its a simple job using a vibrating multi tool. I Save all my blunt wood blades then use them for cutting out plaster/cement. They do it easy and create very little mess.

 

[Intoelectrics]

fitting sockets @ 450mm is a good idea. light switches @ 1200mm is bad as children can reach them. then again, children pre-teens should be kept in a cage. once 13, then sheds are useful.

I have a 13 year old, he is bigger than me already! I said a few years back "The day you can beat me in an arm wrestle I'll give you £100" he was a skinny little thing at the time so I thought it will be a while before I have to shell out some cash. Hmmm... we had an arm wrestle on Friday and it took all my strength to beat him. Obviously I pretended it was easy , kids seem to be so big these days!

 

[45140]

No just interested as I was involved in HV work at one time, as an AP HV and AP LV. Thanks. No other reason, didn't mean to be nosy.

Hi Pete, No worries, nothing secret about it, just wondered. I think HV work is easier to be honest !

 

[Pete999]

Hi Pete, No worries, nothing secret about it, just wondered. I think HV work is easier to be honest !

Not much room for making mistakes though, one hit from 11KV and your done for.

 

[FatAlan]

I recently fitted some sockets in the actual skirting board with the backbox recessed in the wall behind, made good use of the multi tool, feeding cables down behind skirting board to cavity under floor. the skirting was 25cm high, was in a grade 1 listed property. deepest skirting board was just over a foot deep going up stairs and landings, that was on in a old private school building that was being converted to flats.

I hear that Screwfix are doing some good deals on skirting-board ladders at the moment.

 

[Pete999]

I hear that Screwfix are doing some good deals on skirting-board ladders at the moment.

3 or 5 rung ones?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Given that the great majority of items requiring to be plugged into a socket are generally used higher up that the floor - computers, radios, TVs, stereo sets, Satellite, electric clock radios, etc. I think it would make more sense to set an "optimum" level for sockets, say 1000mm or thereabouts. Low sockets as someone has already pointed out are difficult for not only the elderly but also anyone with a mobility issue - I for example recently tore all the ligaments in one knee and you would not imagine what an impact that has for reaching down and bending over even now some three months afterwards.

Higher level sockets would also remove the problems with small children poking things in.

Assuming also that the cables are run in the ceiling void there would also financial savings to be gained as well as associated environmental benefits.

Just me or do others agree ?

You need to speak to a wheelchair user.

 

[45140]

You need to speak to a wheelchair user.

I did actually consult a wheelchair-specific diagram showing the preferred height of electrical items.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I did actually consult a wheelchair-specific diagram showing the preferred height of electrical items.

I’m not saying that all wheelchair users are the same, but many of the ones I have dealt with, prefer low level (300mm) sockets.

 

[Intoelectrics]

3 or 5 rung ones?

you might need "working at height" training for the 5 rung.

 

[Pete999]

you might need "working at height" training for the 5 rung.

Someone footing the base would do, wouldn't it, Dopy, grumpy or any of the 7 dwarfs may be up for some part time working, Hey Hoe its off to work we go.

 

[telectrix]

hey ho, hey ho, it's off to work we go'
with a shovel and a pick and a hairy dick, hey ho, hey ho, hey ho.

 

[Pete999]

hey ho, hey ho, it's off to work we go'
with a shovel and a pick and a hairy dick, hey ho, hey ho, hey ho.

You just had to bring smut into to it Tel, didn't you? funny though

 

[johnduffell]

I recently fitted some sockets in the actual skirting board with the backbox recessed in the wall behind, made good use of the multi tool, feeding cables down behind skirting board to cavity under floor. the skirting was 25cm high, was in a grade 1 listed property. deepest skirting board was just over a foot deep going up stairs and landings, that was on in a old private school building that was being converted to flats.

Surprised you got away with that, that's the textbook definition of "new dwelling" on a change of use for part m compliance. Did you have to get that approved by the building inspector specifically?

 

[Des 56]

Thanks all! Common sense not applied in our basement (all socksts ridicously high ) and was told it was regulation. Wanted to be sure when passing on advise to clients as I am an.interior designer. Thanks again!

View attachment 42920

The Building regulations have been compiled by interested parties after long consideration
Although there are parts that I dispute as not being suitable,they are not meant to be "pick and choose" what suits

The regulations are compulsory for all dwellings,the only difference is older properties being extended can be exempted from specific requirements

If you are going to give advice to future clients,maybe it should be that heights can sometimes be modified away from what is considered the minimum

It may not be wise to refer to the minimum height as ridiculous,you could be slapped on the wrist for being naughty

 

[FatAlan]

3 or 5 rung ones?

I think they do both Pete. Page 135 in the catalogue next to the heavy duty sky hooks.

 

[Spoon]

I have a 13 year old, he is bigger than me already! I said a few years back "The day you can beat me in an arm wrestle I'll give you £100" he was a skinny little thing at the time so I thought it will be a while before I have to shell out some cash. Hmmm... we had an arm wrestle on Friday and it took all my strength to beat him. Obviously I pretended it was easy , kids seem to be so big these days!

My 13 year old lad is nearly as tall as me.... I'm 5ft 11.5 inches.... (Yes the .5 inches is important, as I used to be 6 ft and lost .5 inch somewhere.... )
Luckily he doesn't have the strength of me, or I would be in trouble, as I'm always winding him up...

 

[telectrix]

I used to be 6 ft and lost .5 inch somewhere.

silly bugger. you had your hair cut.

 

[Silly Sausage]

My 13 year old lad is nearly as tall as me.... I'm 5ft 11.5 inches.... (Yes the .5 inches is important, as I used to be 6 ft and lost .5 inch somewhere.... )
Luckily he doesn't have the strength of me, or I would be in trouble, as I'm always winding him up...

Oh, he will have, then enjoy enacting his revenge ...

 

[Spoon]

I used to be 6 ft and lost .5 inch somewhere.

silly bugger. you had your hair cut.

I'm losing that as well...
Not a happy bunny....

 

[Pete999]

I think they do both Pete. Page 135 in the catalogue next to the heavy duty sky hooks.

Ah right thanks for the info

 

[telectrix]

I'm losing that as well...
Not a happy bunny....

i am blessed with a full head of hair. then again with a face like mine, anything positive is a bonus.

 

[Spoon]

Oh, he will have, then enjoy enacting his revenge ...

I've told him that it just runs in the family. My dad wound me up and now I wind him up. He can have kids so that he can then wind them up... (Not just yet though... 15 years time)

 

[telectrix]

tell him if he can beat you at arm wrestling, you'll hand over the reins..... that includes housekeeping, council tax, gas and leccy bills......

 

[Spoon]

tell him if he can beat you at arm wrestling, you'll hand over the reins..... that includes housekeeping, council tax, gas and leccy bills......

I'm cr@p at arm wrestling... I'm better at brazilian jiu jitsu... But he whinges when I get him into arm locks... Apparently "its not fare.."