Stroma Certification Scheme stroma assessment this week

[phil lancaster]

Hi All I have my Stroma CP assessment on Wed. I have been looking in the forum and notice a few threads on the health and safety and complaints procedure they have not requested it then I called them should I have one incase and is there any model /templates around .
Wish it was all over its got me stressed
Oh what happy days

 

[The Ghost]

Just produce a spreadsheet with a row across the top detailing name address complaint action taken date etc. Put that behind the complaints procedure you have downloaded after your google search.

 

[Taylortwocities]

And that will (should) be the last time you look at it...

 

[Taylortwocities]

@phil lancaster

I have a fillable Health and Safety Policy and a Risk Assesment form (in MS WORD).
Also the above form in a PDF.

I can try and send to you, if you PM me your email details.

 

[phil lancaster]

Guys I can not thank you all enough.
what should I be expecting tomorrow at the assessment
phil

 

[Andy78]

Guys I can not thank you all enough.
what should I be expecting tomorrow at the assessment
phil

A thorough chat about you, your business, your qualifications, your experience. Then a check of all your paperwork, which you can send on if you don't have it on the day, and a pop quiz about this and that.
At your example job they will ask to explain the job, open it up, do some testing.... job's a good 'un.

 

[phil lancaster]

Hi all I think I am having a mind fart but my installation that I will be assessed on is the following
I ran a supply from the house cu to the shed/summer house then in the shed/summer house I installed a garage consumer unit that has a RCD main switch then 1 lighting curcit 6A and one socket ring curcit 16A
The house consumer unit i fitted a 20RCBO for the 4mm 2core swa cable armour and then the consumer unit in the shed I set up as a TT system .
I have completed 2 sets of paperwork one for the feed house cu to the shed and one for the shed installation the thing I am thinking of is on the Electrical installation cert for the SWA cable under the part supply characteristics I have put the details of the house supply ie main switch location and DNO information.
do I repeat the information on the shed Electrical installation cert for the shed or put the 2oAr RCBO as the main switch or the RCD main switch that is in the shed.
wow I am sorry its long winded
thanks
phil

 

[phil lancaster]

sorry guys its me again the when I test the RCD main switch in the shed consumer unit the RCBO I have fitted in the house consumer unit that is the feed to the shed trips
what am I doing wrong I know it is a stupid question but my mind I like a washing machine
phil

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

sorry guys its me again the when I test the RCD main switch in the shed consumer unit the RCBO I have fitted in the house consumer unit that is the feed to the shed trips
what am I doing wrong I know it is a stupid question but my mind I like a washing machine
phil

no discrimination i would say is your problem.

If both rcd/rcbo are rated the same in series then isn't the issue one of which pops first?
Im not the most upto date with house domestic set ups personally, having worked largely in small commercial such as pubs, cafes, chain restaurants, shops etc.. i am slowly taking on more domestic work as i move to self employed.

But im thinking a time delayed rcd or rcbo (they do exist apparently but i am yet to see one actually installed!) at the main CU and you could resolve the tripping problem at the house and instead trip the rcd in the shed in the event of a fault or testing procedure.

Hopefully, somebody better placed will read this and correct any mistakes i have made and explain it better to you.

have a read of this pdf from wiring matters, explains it quite well

 

[Ian1981]

Hi all I think I am having a mind fart but my installation that I will be assessed on is the following
I ran a supply from the house cu to the shed/summer house then in the shed/summer house I installed a garage consumer unit that has a RCD main switch then 1 lighting curcit 6A and one socket ring curcit 16A
The house consumer unit i fitted a 20RCBO for the 4mm 2core swa cable armour and then the consumer unit in the shed I set up as a TT system .
I have completed 2 sets of paperwork one for the feed house cu to the shed and one for the shed installation the thing I am thinking of is on the Electrical installation cert for the SWA cable under the part supply characteristics I have put the details of the house supply ie main switch location and DNO information.
do I repeat the information on the shed Electrical installation cert for the shed or put the 2oAr RCBO as the main switch or the RCD main switch that is in the shed.
wow I am sorry its long winded
thanks
phil

If you have installed swa all the way from the house cu to supply your shed just protect it with an mcb and not an rcbo
At the moment you have 2 rcds in series, that is im assuming they are both rated 30mA?

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

If you have installed swa all the way from the house cu to supply your shed just protect it with an mcb and not an rcbo
At the moment you have 2 rcds in series, that is im assuming they are both rated 30mA?

From his posts i think his set up is as follows - at house CU 20Amp RCBO (assuming 30mA) - then 4MM 2 Core SWA to shed CU, Shed CU set up as TT system with a RCD i am assuming is 30mA

I am assuming he has connected the armour to earth at the house end.

I did wonder why he had a rcbo at the house end and not just a mcb feeding the shed CU.

 

[Ian1981]

From his posts i think his set up is as follows - at house CU 20Amp RCBO (assuming 30mA) - then 4MM 2 Core SWA to shed CU, Shed CU set up as TT system with a RCD i am assuming is 30mA

I am assuming he has connected the armour to earth at the house end.

I did wonder why he had a rcbo at the house end and not just a mcb feeding the shed CU.

Yeah his distribution circuit to shed doesn't need rcd protection

 

[phil lancaster]

mmm ok
in the house consumer unit I have fitted a 20RCBO to the swa cable the swa cable runs to the shed into a metal garage consumer unit in the consumer unit there is a 40RCD main switch then a 6 amp mcb and a 16a RCD then I try to test the RCD main switch for the tripping time for the inst cert the house rcbo trip
I hope someone can help out as I have my CP assessment at 10 tomorrow
thanks

 

[Ian1981]

mmm ok
in the house consumer unit I have fitted a 20RCBO to the swa cable the swa cable runs to the shed into a metal garage consumer unit in the consumer unit there is a 40RCD main switch then a 6 amp mcb and a 16a RCD then I try to test the RCD main switch for the tripping time for the inst cert the house rcbo trip
I hope someone can help out as I have my CP assessment at 10 tomorrow
thanks

If you have made the shed a TT how have you isolated the armour from the supply swa if you've glanded into a metal db first?

 

[westward10]

Assuming you have a TN earthing system and fault protection is provided by an mcb and none of the circuit is contained in a wall without earth containment which the swa would provide ditch the rcbo it is not required.

 

[phil lancaster]

Hi in the shed I screwed the swa gland into a plastic through box and connected the plastic through box to the bottom of the metal consumer unit in the shed that was so as not to incorporate the house earth
phil

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

mmm ok
in the house consumer unit I have fitted a 20RCBO to the swa cable the swa cable runs to the shed into a metal garage consumer unit in the consumer unit there is a 40RCD main switch then a 6 amp mcb and a 16a RCD then I try to test the RCD main switch for the tripping time for the inst cert the house rcbo trip
I hope someone can help out as I have my CP assessment at 10 tomorrow
thanks

Am i seeing something i shouldn't here
House = 20 amp RCBO
Shed 4oamp RCD main Switch
Shed 16 Amp RCD (assume for socket radial?)
Again assuming all are 30mA

so RCBO ----->RCD ---->RCD

Sounds like rock, paper and scissors which one goes first along the line?

To the OP i would go look up discrimination between RCD's connected in series. if they are both rated same (30mA?) then the issue is which one trips first when you test them or in fault conditions. especially if one is very sensitive,

 

[westward10]

You might want to put a warning notice on the enclosure, "contains different earth bla bla bla ", they like all that.

 

[westward10]

Am i seeing something i shouldn't here
House = 20 amp RCBO
Shed 4oamp RCD main Switch
Shed 16 Amp RCD (assume for socket radial?)
Again assuming all are 30mA

so RCBO ----->RCD ---->RCD

Sounds like rock, paper and scissors which one goes first along the line?

Don't think the 16A is an rcd, but yes.

 

[Ian1981]

Hi in the shed I screwed the swa gland into a plastic through box and connected the plastic through box to the bottom of the metal consumer unit in the shed that was so as not to incorporate the house earth
phil

Do away with rcbo change for mcb and your garage lights and sockets will be in its own rcd

 

[westward10]

Do away with rcbo change for mcb and your garage lights and sockets will be in its own rcd

And hope they don't pick up on division of circuits at the garage board

 

[Ian1981]

And hope they don't pick up on division of circuits at the garage board

Depends if the assessor is a grumpy git

 

[phil lancaster]

hi I have connected the armour into the house earth to cove the swa cable to the shed then in in the shed I connected the gland of the swa cable into the bottom of a plastic through box then connected the plastic through box to separate the earthing types
phil

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

And hope they don't pick up on division of circuits at the garage board

Hahaha... A mate and fellow electrician had his annual AC assessment from NICEIC last month and his assessor told / mentioned to him that quote' it is the new expectation on new installations now, that to avoid unsafe situations in the event of a circuit failing that lighting should be divided between sides of the property rather than floors, so the owner still has lights on each floor in a fault situation'
so you can have front and back, or left and right but no more upstairs lights downstairs lights on their own circuit.... it might cause poor mrs smith to fall over in the dark i guess. personally i think its a bloody silly idea and i would have told the assessor, no problem, ill put every bloody bulb on its own mcb to keep you happy. if it isn't broke why fix it...

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

hi I have connected the armour into the house earth to cove the swa cable to the shed then in in the shed I connected the gland of the swa cable into the bottom of a plastic through box then connected the plastic through box to separate the earthing types
phil

But have you listened to what people have been saying about the rcbo in the house CU? remove that and swap for a MCB. First thing tomorrow or even tonight if you have a store open by you is go get a correct size MCB.

 

[Ian1981]

Hahaha... A mate and fellow electrician had his annual AC assessment from NICEIC last month and his assessor told / mentioned to him that quote' it is the new expectation on new installations now, that to avoid unsafe situations in the event of a circuit failing that lighting should be divided between sides of the property rather than floors, so the owner still has lights on each floor in a fault situation'
so you can have front and back, or left and right but no more upstairs lights downstairs lights on their own circuit.... it might cause poor mrs smith to fall over in the dark i guess. personally i think its a bloody silly idea and i would have told the assessor, no problem, ill put every bloody bulb on its own mcb to keep you happy. if it isn't broke why fix it...

Hope the niceic assessor showed your mate were it states you have to do this?
I appreciate splitting lighting circuits on 2 sides of an rcd but left to right of a house is asking for trouble and is ridiculous in my opinion.
I'd have told him to get stuffed!

Our company had its assessment other month and nothing like that was said, so it just shows how on the ball and consistent these guys are

 

[phil lancaster]

hi the reason for the rcbo was that a mate in the trade advised me to do so thought it was a bit strange I have some cb in the van I will replace it now advise in the size would a norm 20A cb be ok in the house going to the main switch in the shed that is 40A rcd TT system
Phil

 

[westward10]

I assume your mate isn't an electrician.

 

[phil lancaster]

Well I hate to tell you yes he is I will be telling him what I think tomorrow afternoon the sod what size mcb do you think I should replace the rcdo with the cable is 4mm 2 core swa
phil

 

[Andy78]

Well I hate to tell you yes he is I will be telling him what I think tomorrow afternoon the sod what size mcb do you think I should replace the rcdo with the cable is 4mm 2 core swa
phil

You have designed and installed it so you should know how to size the MCB through calculation.

 

[phil lancaster]

I put the 20A as the max demand in the shed was only 11.25A so I thought that 20A would be adequate with a 6A for the light and 16A for the socket
phil

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

You have designed and installed it so you should know how to size the MCB through calculation.

I agree, hate to be harsh but your assessor tomorrow is going to ask these questions of yourself, so go back to your design calcs and look at the load and any diversity calcs etc then decide on what you think you need.
Its better you come to your own decision and can then explain the reasoning why and how you come to them. the assessor will then be more forgiving of any errors if you can show reasons and at least a decent effort. its far more than many do and they just put bits together and if it works then good. no design or initial verification whatsoever.

 

[westward10]

Well I hate to tell you yes he is I will be telling him what I think tomorrow afternoon the sod what size mcb do you think I should replace the rcdo with the cable is 4mm 2 core swa
phil

Is it surface fixed, buried in the ground?

 

[phil lancaster]

#
buried its the 20A rcd to feed in the house to the 40A main switch in the shed cant see any diff to a 60A dno fuse and 100A main switch the load is very low as it will only be supplying the Lawn mower that is if it ever stops raining and 1x10watt led bulb but I allowed 100w for the light as it states in regs
phil

 

[Ian1981]

4mm swa Clipped direct 38 amps, ref method D buried will carry 37 amps.
However as it's buried there is a 0.9 correction factor to be used and if you can be bothered there's depth to consider, ground temp, is it in a duct and soil thermal resistivity.
I'd stick with your 20 amp mcb as it's very unlikely to be overloaded with just one light and one socket and you will never achieve descent discrimination with your 16 amp mcb in the shed with the supply mcb anyway

 

[phil lancaster]

hi thanks for your opinion I took into account the points you raised inc voltage drop I have all the calculation for him to look over just with the advise and info I was getting I started to doubt myself as my head is battered getting things ready as it has been a very quick turn around from phoning stroma and the as visit has only been a week
thanks for all you help everyone

 

[Taylortwocities]

#
buried its the 20A rcd to feed in the house to the 40A main switch in the shed cant see any diff to a 60A dno fuse and 100A main switch

Phil, I think that you are misunderstanding something. The 40A marking on a 30mA RCD does NOT relate to a tripping current. The 40A relates to the amount of current that the switch contacts in the RCD can handle. The RCD does not have any over current protection.
In the same way, a 100A main switch is just a switch that had contacts that can handle currents up to 100A. That device also provides no over current protection.

Quite honestly your design is not good. If you only have a light and a socket in the outbuilding, you don't need a CU out there. Just the RCBO in the house and a simple switched FCU with a 3A fuse in it for the lights.

But you are where you are now. As above, tske that RCBO out at the house end and put in an MCB big enough to provide discrimination with the 16A MCB in the outbuilding. You need to size it correctly for the size of the SWA cable.

I suggest you get some really nice biscuits for the STROMA guy. You are going to need him on your side!

 

[Ian1981]

Phil, I think that you are misunderstanding something. The 40A marking on a 30mA RCD does NOT relate to a tripping current. The 40A relates to the amount of current that the switch contacts in the RCD can handle. The RCD does not have any over current protection.
In the same way, a 100A main switch is just a switch that had contacts that can handle currents up to 100A. That device also provides no over current protection.

Quite honestly your design is not good. If you only have a light and a socket in the outbuilding, you don't need a CU out there. Just the RCBO in the house and a simple switched FCU with a 3A fuse in it for the lights.

But you are where you are now. As above, tske that RCBO out at the house end and put in an MCB big enough to provide discrimination with the 16A MCB in the outbuilding. You need to size it correctly for the size of the SWA cable.

I suggest you get some really nice biscuits for the STROMA guy. You are going to need him on your side!

As it's 4mm supplying the garage he's got no chance of achieving any discrimination with an appropriate OCPD (mcb type anyway)and probably won't achieve it with the 6amp mcb either

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes I know, I just didn't want to rain too much on his parade.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Complaints form

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Anybody know if the OP passed the Stroma Assessment....

 

[westward10]

Anybody know if the OP passed the Stroma Assessment....

Hopefully he will update us however it went.