The great pat testing scam

[Patman]

Havent got CoP to hand, but no mention of 25A test anymore!
Not sure of edition, but has a purple/lilac cover!

Yes "purple/lilac" cover is 3rd (and latest) edition. As NovusSparkus adds in his post.... p73. Check it out !!

 

[brizospark]

name and shame!!!!

 

[Duntestin]

Had look and 25a test is indeed mentioned - my mistake.
But my point is that it is not specified as mandatory, it is an either/or with a 20mA-200mA test is it not?

 

[gutterball]

Just to add to this. I was in a office recently replacing some light fittings when the pat test guy appeared. He had a bar code scanner and a printer on his belt. He scanned the previous sticker printed a label and on to the next. The whole office in 5 mins. When he had gone I had a look sticker said visual only and a number nothing else. When I queried the office manager she hadn't a clue about proper pat tests. They were paying this joker £50 every 6 months. Apparently he had walked into the office just after it had opened and offered his services. I'm wondering how many other business he has scammed?

 

[Patman]

Hang on what's that noise............. My blood's just coming to the boil!!!!! *@#*@@ !!

 

[Adam W]

That's PAT testing in a nutshell though - nobody's really that bothered about it until something goes wrong and someone needs to be sued, when the tester just says it was fine at the time of testing.
The office manager probably thinks she's got a good deal because it's all done in 5 mins with the minimal of disruption - nothing is even switched off, and it ticks the box for £50.

 

[Duntestin]

But who is really to blame? The scamming 'visual' guy or the muppet who is employing him and supposed to be protecting his staff?

At the end of the day, if the market for scammers wasn't there then these guys would have to work for a living!

 

[Dcf]

666 the number of the beast
100 appliances a day is hard work at the best of times
Their pat tester would b in flames after 300

 

[surrytom]

Im a PAT tester and these comments are just what the trade needs.All too often i get to site and iam immediatly accused of having the "easiest job in the world","money for old rope" or "do you just put stickers on them?"
I work for a large company with many big contracts and we pride ourselves in doing the job properly,i earn just above minimum wage doing the job and believe pay is also a factor in the lowering of quality.we cant compete with the 50p firms.It would be a big help if the customer had a better insight in to what a good tester does and the reasons why,alot of places i visit just let me get on with it and sign my jobsheet when i say im done without checking a single appliance or shadowing me whilst im at work.Im sure most firms have it done just for insurance purposes.
I really like my Job and chose to do it.For me a PAT tester should be qualified to atleast city&guilds 2377,be registered with a governing body and have an on-site assessment.the rule about competent person is far to vague and has given licence to any employee to carry out tests.
firms are not going to pay £2 per item to a fully qualifed and experianced PAT engineer when "John"the part time caretaker can do it for nothing.
every post i see regarding PAT testing is negative due to poor customer experiances from incapable testing firms.

 

[bcuk04]

was doing a PIR at site today when I noticed a PAT tester had turned up, having read through this post the other day I though I'd keep an eye on him and see what he got up to
I passed him when he was inspecting a 30m extention lead, came back a minute later to see it had been stickered and theres no way he'd rolled it all out and back again.
Had a quick look in the kitchen only to find the microwave freshly stickered, when I looked at plug there was no fuseguard in place!
All the time he was walking around he didnt have the necessary lead to plug his tester in then plug appliance into tester, I did have a little chat and found that he could often did 500 items a day with 600 being his best!

 

[Kamikaze]

A dead give away is when the stickers are upside-down. Usually indicates the person has simply leant over the appliance without touching it.

 

[Adam W]

I did some PAT job which I was told all had to be done in a day because it had to be kept to budget.
There's me working my bottom off from 8am to 5pm, no breaks, pulling all the cables out to check them and get to the plugtops, where interestingly the previous tester hadn't stuck any of his stickers.
No fuse, wrong fuse, reverse polarity, plugtop on T&E... Missed those didn't ya sunshine?

 

[pattesting]

Hi I give 2 quotes one is for a full itemized list of all equipment with serial numbers and make and model fuse size and if changed what was one in it and any other repairs done and a certificate for each item.

Or a certificate just for all items tested with no full details done

 

[madmac]

This again is another example of the colleges and training providers making a quick buck by allowing any Tom,Dick or Harry do the C&G2377 and then tender for work as qualified Pat testers!!! when it was meant, as all of these courses were meant to be, as top up courses for experienced,qualified and competent electricians to get up to speed on the regulations and peculiarities of the job at hand.

 

[madmac]

Just been on a website for electrical qualifications and definitions.....and they are clearly saying that "domestic installer course" was simply to give kitchen fitters,plumbers,alarm engineers, etc a basic grasp of electrics so they could basically connect their equipment to a fcu! IT IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER DEEMS A DOMESTIC INSTALLER TO BE A COMPETENT ELECTRICIAN!!!
So all you guys that have paid thousands to these scam training providers and then believed their propaganda that you will be a qualified electrician have been lied to!!!

 

[Electricalserv]

Just been on a website for electrical qualifications and definitions.....and they are clearly saying that "domestic installer course" was simply to give kitchen fitters,plumbers,alarm engineers, etc a basic grasp of electrics so they could basically connect their equipment to a fcu! IT IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER DEEMS A DOMESTIC INSTALLER TO BE A COMPETENT ELECTRICIAN!!!
So all you guys that have paid thousands to these scam training providers and then believed their propaganda that you will be a qualified electrician have been lied to!!!

Madmac. No doubt you are correct in saying Domestic installers are not sparks. But the NICEIC are the only ones who call members Domestic Installers.

A Domestic Installer is someone who took a short course....Not to get mixed up with an electrician who works on domestics.

Btw the IET clearly state a DI with level 2 qualifications is not an electrician. A DI with a level 3 qualification is!

 

[madmac]

Btw the IET clearly state a DI with level 2 qualifications is not an electrician. A DI with a level 3 qualification is!

I also seen that and am now going to raise the issue with the union as the IET formerly the IEE have in the past not been able to clearly define what a competent person was and for them now with no consultation of the industry at large to declare that someone who completes a fast track training programme and then attains level 3 but may have no practical experience, is an "electrician" is quite honestly bordering on the laughable to say the least!

 

[Electricalserv]

Btw the IET clearly state a DI with level 2 qualifications is not an electrician. A DI with a level 3 qualification is!

I also seen that and am now going to raise the issue with the union as the IET formerly the IEE have in the past not been able to clearly define what a competent person was and for them now with no consultation of the industry at large to declare that someone who completes a fast track training programme and then attains level 3 but may have no practical experience, is an "electrician" is quite honestly bordering on the laughable to say the least!

Your right but how can you prove experience? From a previous employer? Well I'm sure that won't be as fool prrof as you think. Employers will be more than willing to lie for someones experience

 

[madmac]

Your right but how can you prove experience? From a previous employer? Well I'm sure that won't be as fool prrof as you think. Employers will be more than willing to lie for someones experience

I agree with you there mate, I wouldn't accept any word of mouth guarantee from a mob because the way this industry is at the moment there isn't an honest one amongst the whole shower! It brings me back to the tried and tested ways of proving experience and competency......Apprenticeship,adult trainee but basically any method where you gain your quals. and experience as a package and not one or the other, then when you get your grading and you want to jump around mobs you use the JIB/SJIB card/grading system as back up( not perfect either I admit), and you go to night school( as i have done on numerous occassions) to gain further qualifications in the industry that an employer will be looking for but over all it is a combination of all these things and not just quals. or someone saying you are experienced.

 

[alarm man]

Just been on a website for electrical qualifications and definitions.....and they are clearly saying that "domestic installer course" was simply to give ,alarm engineers, etc a basic grasp of electrics

cheers mac..:33: i know what you mean tho..:yesnod:

 

[DurhamSparky]

sorry to move off track a bit!!

why are we discussing the DI and electrician differences on a PAT testing thread!!

 

[alarm man]

sorry to move off track a bit!!

why are we discussing the DI and electrician differences on a PAT testing thread!!

because its not a iso 9000 thread..

 

[madmac]

Durhamsparky, look at what i wrote on 104.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Durhamsparky, look at what i wrote on 104.

Then your post 105 took it off track.

As said wayyyyyyy back, tight fisted companies are getting the cheapest PAT testers in, all we can do is stick to what we do best and do a thorough job and sleep well at night.

 

[madmac]

Good on you Mark for keeping up the standard and I know I went off track a bit but it's all part of the bigger picture in our industry.

 

[gtrance]

Hi, I've read some of this thread with interest and have a couple of questions if that's okay. We run a furniture shop and every so often get a cold call from a pat testing company offering their services. Recently we accepted a quote from one company which was £50 + vat for up to 18 appliances and then 85 pence for every appliance there after. The up to 18 was agreed after we estimated we had about 15 appliances in our shop. Chap came round and tested each appliance by unplugging it, plugging it into a machine of some sort. Looking at the readout from the machine then plugging it back in and stickering it up. It took approx 1-2mins for each appliance. In the end he tested 13 appliances and was out in less than 30 minutes. I didn't notice any visual inspection as such nor do I know if he should have been doing more than what he did. Based on this information, does this sound like a quick rush job which wouldn't have been anywhere near thorough enough? If so, what exactly is the process for testing each appliance? Also, is £50 + vat about right for testing 13 appliances? I notice some of you mention you charge £2-£3 per appliance. Is this on top of a fixed callout fee or do you just expect to have a minumum number of appliances to do and therefore the job is worth it without a callout charge? Many Thanks Greg

 

[gtrance]

I did insert breaks between paragraphs in the above post but they don't seem to be working...

 

[i=p/u]

some have call out charge and some have minimum amount of appliances (under20) works in roundabouts.. yes he should do visual before testing as far as dismatle the plug, tugg at the flex etc... but what you have read some people arnt doing this as they seem it tests ok it is ok, but a test machine will not pick up some faults that a visual would..... if you read this thread yo'l see you dont always get what you pay for..

 

[Burnt Fingers]

We do £50 certificate Fee, plus Inventory fee of £50.00/100 appliances or £100/100+ appliances. Also charge for travel to site, and a basic £1.50 per item. Repairs range from £0.50 for a fuse to £30.00 for replacing a flex.

But no money can compensate for greasy, gross appliances in Fish and Chip shops..........

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Try a kebab house!!!!