Thx to the forum over the years

[DPG]

Wonder what happened to John-SJW. Steve you'd have liked him - he had some similar ideas to yours.

Mind you he was very stubborn and a bit obnoxious to be honest.

 

[Steve-S]

A broken ring is unlikely to lead to a fire, but it 'can'. This reservation is mainly by Continentals and Americans. Use 4mm cable then problem, and risk, has 'gone'.

1. Conductors bunching under stress being forced out of terminals at rear of sockets in packed backboxes.
Solution?
Use lever screwless connectors in backboxes to take the cable's current load, with a flex from the lever screwless connectors to the sockets terminals. No stress on sockets terminal with socket moving into position with ease.

 

[nicebutdim]

A broken ring is unlikely to lead to a fire, but it 'can'. This reservation is mainly by Continentals and Americans. Use 4mm cable then problem, and risk, has 'gone'.

Risk of fire from 2.5mm cable potentially operating above its recommended loading against the risk of fire from potential overheating of high resistance joint in a circuit containing twice the required number of connections?

I've ignored the highlighted sections in your quote as those points have been addressed several times now. You may choose to ignore that which does not suit your thinking, but my previous comments stand if you'd like a response to those points.

 

[mainline]

Wonder what happened to John-SJW. Steve you'd have liked him - he had some similar ideas to yours.

Mind you he was very stubborn and a bit obnoxious to be honest.

Yes, I remember him saying things like “I don't like repeating myself” or something along those lines.

I do disagree though when you say he was a bit obnoxious,.

 

[Steve-S]

Wonder what happened to John-SJW. Steve you'd have liked him - he had some similar ideas to yours.

Mind you he was very stubborn and a bit obnoxious to be honest.

I may have got some from him. I read many posts, not noting names only content, as threads went on and on.
One thing is clear now, with the aid of screwless connectors and AFDDs, rings are bombproof. A must have. Not the radials promoted by Youtubers, and companies on Youtube, to sell more cable, MSBs, RCBOs, bigger main panels etc.

Look at the regs, it says some high rises need an AFDD on each circuit with a socket. And they recommend an AFDD on 'all' socket circuits. Perplexingly none mandatory on electric showers which are the most troublesome developing arcs, usually at the N terminal.

Have a radial to just the washing machine with only one plug on it? An expensive AFDD is needed. I have seen dedicated radials to washing machines, dishwashers and tumble dryers. All with 13A plugs. So, what do we have? The regs say have four AFDDs. Ouch! So best to hard wire the three appliances then only an AFDD on the socket circuit. Or better still have them all on a ring with an AFDD and screwless connectors. And have it 4mm to be sure, with the added luxury to split into two radials if the needed arises.

 

[Steve-S]

Risk of fire from 2.5mm cable potentially operating above its recommended loading against the risk of fire from potential overheating of high resistance joint in a circuit containing twice the required number of connections?

Risk of fire from a 2.5mm cable is eliminated by upping to 4mm.

A high resistance joint can come about by ramming sockets into boxes stressing the many cables and terminal connections behind, which is 'common'. You fail to see that this is a problem. I saw it regularly, sometimes with scorch marks to prove the point, which alerted me to eliminate the problem, at least on my installation. The problem is easily eliminated.

 

[mainline]

I may have got some from him. I read many posts, not noting names only content, as threads went on and on.
One thing is clear now, with the aid of screwless connectors and AFDDs, rings are bombproof. A must have. Not the radials promoted by Youtubers, and companies on Youtube, to sell more cable, MSBs, RCBOs, bigger main panels etc.

Look at the regs, it says some high rises need an AFDD on each circuit with a socket. And they recommend an AFDD on all socket circuits. None needed on electric shower which are the most troublesome developing arcs, usually at the N terminal.

Have a radial to just the washing machine with only one plug on it? An expensive AFDD is needed. I have seen dedicated radials to washing machines, dishwashers and tumble driers. All with 13A plugs. So, what do we have? The regs say have four AFDDs. Ouch! So best to hard wire the three appliances then only an AFDD on the socket circuit. Or better still have them all on a ring with an AFDD and screwless connectors. And have it 4mm to be sure, with the added luxury to split into two radials if the needed arises.

I'm guessing even a really religious churchgoer would tire in the end of the vicar saying the same stuff.

 

[Steve-S]

I'm guessing even a really religious churchgoer would tire in the end of the vicar saying the same stuff.

I have found vicars keep saying the same stuff as it does not sink too well with most.

 

[nicebutdim]

Risk of fire from a 2.5mm cable is eliminated by upping to 4mm.

A resistance joint can come about by ramming sockets into boxes stressing the many cables and terminal connections behind, which is 'common'. You fail to see that this is a problem. I saw it regularly, sometimes with scorch marks to prove the point, which alerted me to eliminate the problem, at least on my installation. The problem is easily eliminated.

So you've eliminated one perceived risk and replaced it with another.

Again I repeat that no competent person stresses terminations in the way you describe and thus we return to the issue of incompetence. An incompetent person might drive a plate screw through insulation. An incompetent person might leave basic insulation chaffing against unprotected metal entry to a box. An incompetent person might partake in all manner of problematic or potentially dangerous actions and no amount of 4mm cable or lever connectors will change that.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I hope you guys are enjoying the ride you'r being taken on.

 

[Steve-S]

So you've eliminated one perceived risk and replaced it with another.

Again I repeat that no competent person stresses terminations in the way you describe and thus we return to the issue of incompetence. An incompetent person might drive a plate screw through insulation. An incompetent person might leave basic insulation chaffing against unprotected metal entry to a box. An incompetent person might partake in all manner of problematic or potentially dangerous actions and no amount of 4mm cable or lever connectors will change that.

I am unaware of another risk being created. It is only in your mind.

You keep going around in circles unable to get a point. Again for you, I have come across many cables that have popped out of socket terminals because stress was put on them when the socket was pushed in, and installed by 'competent' professionals. It 'will' happen by the nature of the limited space environment. That is obvious. I have seen many scorched as well. I have seen many screwed terminals work loose as well. They cause fires. You think this is not an issue. It is!

Then you carp on about competence, like an old plumber unable to do his lead wiped joints any more as the world as moved on to copper.

 

[DPG]

Good morning. Is this the right room for an argument?

 

[Steve-S]

I hope you guys are enjoying the ride you'r being taken on.

I am. Amazing how many are resistant anything new or not familiar.

 

[Steve-S]

Good morning. Is this the right room for an argument?

The full hour or half an hour argument?

 

[DPG]

I am. Amazing how many are resistant anything new or not familiar.

You obviously have missed a lot of threads on here if you think that is the case.

 

[nicebutdim]

I am unaware of another risk being created.

Therein lies the problem.

I see no merit in further circular debate, so will bow out of this discussion.