Vettels reaction on hamilton in azerbarjain race

[uksrevivor]

Well did anyone see the actions of vettel on hamilton during the safety car stage of the race.
A 10 second stop go penalty was to lenient in my opinion. Hamilton was the lead car and vettel crashed into the back of him that was bad enough but vettels reaction afterwards was terrible and it warranted a black flag IMO irrespective of the title challenge. Ferrari get away with it again maybe?

 

[SparkyChick]

Couldn't agree more.

 

[westward10]

They may both have achieved earning lots of money by having limited intelligence but the fact remains, they have limited intelligence even Darwin would have deemed them insignificant.

 

[uksrevivor]

I would say every driver on the grid is intelligent driving at speeds like they do having to cope with instantaneous reactions and mapping systems on the steering wheel while driving at over 200mph takes some intelligent individuals to cope with that.

 

[westward10]

No sorry even the dimmmest of people or those with learning difficulties can react quickly or adapt to programmed situations, they would both have difficulties stacking shelves in Aldi.

 

[Midwest]

No sorry even the dimmmest of people or those with learning difficulties can react quickly or adapt to programmed situations, they would both have difficulties stacking shelves in Aldi.

Ignore him uksrevivor, he's a Philistine. I'll distract him with a thread about choc boxes or EICR codes or something. Then us adults can continue with the topic in question.

Edit; In any case, he drives a VW Caddy; one of the most slowest things after the three-toed sloth.

 

[Midwest]

Well did anyone see the actions of vettel on hamilton during the safety car stage of the race.
A 10 second stop go penalty was to lenient in my opinion. Hamilton was the lead car and vettel crashed into the back of him that was bad enough but vettels reaction afterwards was terrible and it warranted a black flag IMO irrespective of the title challenge. Ferrari get away with it again maybe?

Can't agree. The FIA told him if he's naughty boy again, he will be in really really big trouble. After all, he's only been told not to be naughty again, once before and has got more points on his licence, than Verstappen has had race finishes.

 

[Pete999]

Well did anyone see the actions of vettel on hamilton during the safety car stage of the race.
A 10 second stop go penalty was to lenient in my opinion. Hamilton was the lead car and vettel crashed into the back of him that was bad enough but vettels reaction afterwards was terrible and it warranted a black flag IMO irrespective of the title challenge. Ferrari get away with it again maybe?

Looks like the FIA are reacting to people doing wrong, just like the scams in our industry

 

[ruston]

You just have to think what Jean Todt was before he became president of the FIA.
Jean Todt - Wikipedia

 

[Midwest]

Starred in Blazing Saddles?

 

[Pete999]

Starred in Blazing Saddles?

View attachment 37297

Quite frankly (tin hat firmly on) I find all motor Sports (now there is a misnomer, Sport) sat in a car, motor bike driving around on a race course they all know, getting paid God knows how much, for doing what we all do most days on the way to work or whatever, same as golf, darts, Poker, pool or Snooker HTF can that be described as a sport, pastime maybe but sport, Soccer is bad enough , but that lot no chance, told you I was in a mischievous mood.

 

[Midwest]

Tiddlywinks ?

 

[Midwest]

Quite frankly (tin hat firmly on) I find all motor Sports (now there is a misnomer, Sport) sat in a car, motor bike driving around on a race course they all know, getting paid God knows how much, for doing what we all do most days on the way to work or whatever, same as golf, darts, Poker, pool or Snooker HTF can that be described as a sport, pastime maybe but sport, Soccer is bad enough , but that lot no chance, told you I was in a mischievous mood.

I understand Vettel is a very 'bad' driver, but I bet he could get to work quicker than you Pete

 

[Pete999]

Tiddlywinks ?

That as well

 

[Pete999]

I understand Vettel is a very 'bad' driver, but I bet he could get to work quicker than you Pete

I don't doubt it Middy, I don't work any more.

 

[telectrix]

overpaid, oversexed undertalented pouffs. this applies to F1, football,tennis,golf. all more boring than watching a public hanging. real sport is rugby union,darts,snooker. beer in hand, smokes optional.

 

[Midwest]

I don't doubt it Middy, I don't work any more.

Bet he could get down to the Post Office before you then

 

[Pete999]

overpaid, oversexed undertalented pouffs. this applies to F1, football,tennis,golf. all more boring than watching a public hanging. real sport is rugby union,darts,snooker. beer in hand, smokes optional.

Right on young Man

 

[Midwest]

I don't doubt it Middy, I don't work any more.

Bet he could get down to the Post Office before you then

overpaid, oversexed undertalented pouffs. this applies to F1, football,tennis,golf. all more boring than watching a public hanging. real sport is rugby union,darts,snooker. beer in hand, smokes optional.

Rugby Union played by posh boys, darts played by Chavs, snooker played by people who wasted their lunchtimes, F1 chaps can drive their cars round circuits drinking, and James Hunt smoked smokes after he won.

S**T I somehow double quoted, that's a first!

 

[Pete999]

Bet he could get down to the Post Office before you then


Rugby Union played by posh boys, darts played by Chavs, snooker played by people who wasted their lunchtimes, F1 chaps can drive their cars round circuits drinking, and James Hunt smoked smokes after he won.

S**T I somehow double quoted, that's a first!

Doubt it,Take him that long to put his make up on, and strap in, I would have walked there and back done the SUN quiz word, cup of coffee and washed by the time had started hi engine. I played Rugby Union and by no stretch of the imagination am I a Posh Boy. But you are right about the rest, mind you most dart players are "considerably richer than me.

 

[Midwest]

I played rugby union at my grammar school in the sixties, and broke two of my teeth, still got the remnants . Never got fagged though

 

[Pete999]

I played rugby union at my grammar school in the sixties, and broke two of my teeth, still got the remnants . Never got fagged though

You were lucky Middy, oh sorry Fagged I thought you said something else

 

[telectrix]

I played rugby union at my grammar school in the sixties, and broke two of my teeth, still got the remnants . Never got fagged though

2 teeth? is that all.i broke my femur and an opposing player's nose. all on the first game @ secondary school, aged 11.

 

[Midwest]

Monty Python - Four Yorkshiremen. Won't bother with the link, 'cos we've gone off topic long enough

 

[uksrevivor]

Enjoy silverstone Midwest hopefully this weather picks up a bit for you.

 

[ruston]

Bit late , but from me too.

 

[Midwest]

Enjoy silverstone Midwest hopefully this weather picks up a bit for you.

We did enjoy ourselves, but it was very expensive. I had a £9 cheese burger, only 'cos I couldn't be arsed to wait in the twenty minute queue for the £5 ones!

Went there with general admission tickets, but decided to upgrade to grandstand tickets for the race Sunday ; note you can only see the sky with GA.

If you like motor sport - I know some crazy guys don't - next year might be worth a visit before it ends.

 

[Midwest]

We did enjoy ourselves, but it was very expensive. I had a £9 cheese burger, only 'cos I couldn't be arsed to wait in the twenty minute queue for the £5 ones!

Went there with general admission tickets, but decided to upgrade to grandstand tickets for the race Sunday ; note you can only see the sky with GA.

If you like motor sport - I know some crazy guys don't - next year might be worth a visit before it ends.

Strangely, we haven't had any recent threads on F1.

Fast forward 4 years, what the hell went on there - Abu Dhabi 2021

 

[UNG]

Strangely, we haven't had any recent threads on F1.

Fast forward 4 years, what the hell went on there - Abu Dhabi 2021

Hamilton got mugged by Michael Masi

 

[Moley]

I'm not a fan of Hamilton but still think he should have won. He showed he was faster throughout the race. Verstappen just seems to be a very arragant.

 

[Phil L]

Masi could of been a bit more subtle about it, the moment the decision was made to let just the first few lapped cars through it was game over for Hamilton, ruined what was a good season, they should of red flagged it let Hamilton put some new tyres on and then had a 3 lap shoot out

 

[brianmoooore]

If Hamilton wanted reds, there was nothing preventing him stopping for them. He would have been behind Max on new tyres, with Max on worn ones. The reverse of what happened.
Danger was that the race would finish behind the safety car, and Lewis would have thrown away the win.
Its normal for lapped cars to be allowed to overtake the safety car and unlap themselves, and this is what happened. In order to save time, and allow one racing lap, just the ones relevant to the title panel did so. The ones that didn't overtake were running 12th position downwards, so would all have had no chance of moving up to even one point in the one remaining lap.
Unusual and controversial, maybe, but Massi owed Max one after the ridiculous first lap decision.

 

[Phil L]

If Hamilton wanted reds, there was nothing preventing him stopping for them. He would have been behind Max on new tyres, with Max on worn ones. The reverse of what happened.
Danger was that the race would finish behind the safety car, and Lewis would have thrown away the win.
Its normal for lapped cars to be allowed to overtake the safety car and unlap themselves, and this is what happened. In order to save time, and allow one racing lap, just the ones relevant to the title panel did so. The ones that didn't overtake were running 12th position downwards, so would all have had no chance of moving up to even one point in the one remaining lap.
Unusual and controversial, maybe, but Massi owed Max one after the ridiculous first lap decision.

Massi owed Max one fair enough, he could of given Max a fair crack at Hamilton with a few laps to go, handing him the title is a bit much though

 

[brianmoooore]

Unfortunately, Latifi left it a bit late to bin it. No one could do anything about that.

 

[Phil L]

Unfortunately, Latifi left it a bit late to bin it. No one could do anything about that.

Agreed it was a late crash, but why after Max put on New tyres did they not Red flag it and give them both an equal chance at the win, after all they went into the final race of the season on exactly the same points, why did they feel the need to hand the title to Max (that was the only possible outcome with the decision they made)

 

[brianmoooore]

A red flag would have been a more satisfactory way of deciding the title, but Latifi's shunt was hardly of the severity that would need a stoppage.
They both had the chance to restart line astern on reds if they wanted. Max rolled the dice, Lewis didn't.

 

[Zerax]

A red flag would have been a more satisfactory way of deciding the title, but Latifi's shunt was hardly of the severity that would need a stoppage.
They both had the chance to restart line astern on reds if they wanted. Max rolled the dice, Lewis didn't.

The bit your missing... is that it looks like the rules were 'changed' to facilitate a Verstappen win.. if Hamilton had stopped for fresh soft tyres, it's likely that the race would have finished 'normally' with the safety car leading the way as Verstappen won. Mercedes were damned if they stopped and damned if they didn't. That's the whole basis of the protest that Mercedes raised... and maybe the appeal and maybe the tribunal.

Mercedes were assuming that the RD (Race Director) would either let through all lapped cars (as is the normal routine that's been established for many many years) or not let through any lapped cars (as is normal only if it's wet). But the RD invented a hybrid solution of only letting through enough cars to put Verstappen right behind Hamilton. That's why it stinks so much ! There's no precedent for what he did.

The RD declared that he wanted the cars to race... but it wasn't... because with Verstappen on fresh soft tyres and Hamilton on 44 lap old hard tyres... there was only every going to be one result !

 

[UNG]

If Hamilton wanted reds, there was nothing preventing him stopping for them. He would have been behind Max on new tyres, with Max on worn ones. The reverse of what happened.
Danger was that the race would finish behind the safety car, and Lewis would have thrown away the win.
Its normal for ALL lapped cars to be allowed to overtake the safety car and unlap themselves, and this is NOT what happened. In order to save time, and allow one racing lap, just the ones relevant to the title panel did so. The ones that didn't overtake were running 12th position downwards, so would all have had no chance of moving up to even one point in the one remaining lap.
Unusual and controversial, maybe, but Massi owed Max one after the ridiculous first lap decision.

Corrected that for you, the rules do state all lapped cars can unlap themselves not just a selected few

This was just another error in Masi's error strewn race directorship in F1. Yesterday was as farcical as the two laps behind the safety car that became a race with half points awarded

With regard to the first lap decision Max has been moaning all season about being pushed off track or not being given enough room yet his lunging late braking antics force others off the track with nowhere to go

 

[brianmoooore]

what difference would it have made if all the lapped cars had been let through, instead of just the relevant ones, other than taking longer, and having the unsatisfactory effect of the race finishing behind the safety car?

 

[UNG]

A red flag would have been a more satisfactory way of deciding the title, but Latifi's shunt was hardly of the severity that would need a stoppage.
They both had the chance to restart line astern on reds if they wanted. Max rolled the dice, Lewis didn't.

A VSC would have been more appropriate to maintain the race positioning

 

[Zerax]

Corrected that for you, the rules do state all lapped cars can unlap themselves not just a selected few

This was just another error in Masi's error strewn race directorship in F1. Yesterday was as farcical as the two laps behind the safety car that became a race with half points awarded

With regard to the first lap decision Max has been moaning all season about being pushed off track or not being given enough room yet his lunging late braking antics force others off the track with nowhere to go

Agreed.

Verstappen has got away with so much this season... the FIA were clearly desperate for someone other than Hamilton to win the title. Just look at that 'brake test' stunt that Verstappen pulled in Saudi Arabia... I'm sure that any other driver would have been black flagged for that ! Instead he was given a 10 sec penalty that actually wasn't a penalty because the had 11 seconds to play with ahead of Bottas. Awarding penalties after the race, when it's already known what the outcome of that penalty would be... needs to stop... it's open to far too much manipulation !!

 

[Zerax]

Corrected that for you, the rules do state all lapped cars can unlap themselves not just a selected few

Actually... the rules say "any" lapped cars... that's one of the ways that the FIA wriggled out of the protest. They argued that 'any' does not mean 'all'... even though in every other safety car situation ever... it has meant 'all' !

 

[brianmoooore]

A VSC would have been more appropriate to maintain the race positioning

Too dangerous for a VSC with a telehandler on track.

 

[brianmoooore]

Corrected that for you, the rules do state all lapped cars can unlap themselves not just a selected few

This was just another error in Masi's error strewn race directorship in F1. Yesterday was as farcical as the two laps behind the safety car that became a race with half points awarded

With regard to the first lap decision Max has been moaning all season about being pushed off track or not being given enough room yet his lunging late braking antics force others off the track with nowhere to go

I don't think you'll find anyone that disagrees that Spa was a farce. You can see exactly where the circuit is from 30 miles away. It's right under that big black cloud in the distance, often with lightning forking from it.
On the first lap. Max was 2/3 past Hamilton by the corner apex, and he managed to slow the car enough to make the corner without leaving the circuit. Hamilton had the choices of backing out and staying on track, causing a collision and taking both cars out, or sailing across the painted tarmac, taking the place back illegally.
It's the circuit designer's fault as much as anything. There should always be consequences of leaving the track, whether it's gravel, high kerbs or chicanes.
Re: the lapped cars, see my post 39

 

[UNG]

what difference would it have made if all the lapped cars had been let through, instead of just the relevant ones, other than taking longer, and having the unsatisfactory effect of the race finishing behind the safety car?

Masi created a hybrid rule off his own bat by only letting 5 cars through in sheer desperation to create a supposed racing ending when all he created was a predictable ending. Why did we need to watch 57 laps for that ending when one lap was enough

It was all done in a hurry and the only winner in the end was acrimony

F1 has suffered more damage in 10 minutes than at any other time in it's history I for one won't bother next season and judging by the comments on a number of sites I'm not on my own

 

[brianmoooore]

and judging by the comments on a number of sites I'm not on my own

Try Dutch sites, or, for that matter, non UK sites.
What happened in this race was what normally happens when a safety car is deployed, as it was quite correctly in this case, and I can't see what difference it made, other than time saving, by just letting a few cars through.
If it had happened ,say, five laps earlier, all lapped cars would have overtaken, and the result would have been the same. Lewis had the same oppurtunity to change tyres as Max

 

[Midwest]

Try Dutch sites, or, for that matter, non UK sites.
What happened in this race was what normally happens when a safety car is deployed, as it was quite correctly in this case, and I can't see what difference it made, other than time saving, by just letting a few cars through.
If it had happened ,say, five laps earlier, all lapped cars would have overtaken, and the result would have been the same. Lewis had the same oppurtunity to change tyres as Max

Can’t seem to post, without quoting someone, so apologies @brianmoooore .

It would be interesting to hear the views of Max’s fans. I favour Lewis, but I still think the WDC was robbed from him. He was consistently in front of Max, even with his extra pit stops. Mercedes strategy was based on the rules of the safety car, not to pit, then Masi orchestrated the end.

The shenanigans of teams telling the RD what to do, should stop as well.

interesting article from the BBC;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59643988

 

[Midwest]

Can’t seem to post, without quoting someone, so apologies @brianmoooore .

It would be interesting to hear the views of Max’s fans. I favour Lewis, but I still think the WDC was robbed from him. He was consistently in front of Max, even with his extra pit stops. Mercedes strategy was based on the rules of the safety car, not to pit, then Masi orchestrated the end.

The shenanigans of teams telling the RD what to do, should stop as well.

interesting article from the BBC;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59643988

Max’s aggressive driving has to be reviewed. Have not got the quotes, but even the other drivers seem to question it.

 

[Zerax]

If it had happened ,say, five laps earlier, all lapped cars would have overtaken, and the result would have been the same. Lewis had the same oppurtunity to change tyres as Max

No... it would not. The reason that Mercedes did not bring in Hamilton is because they were applying the 'sporting regulations' and precedent (the two things go hand in hand, precedent allows understanding of the rules). The 'sporting regulations' and precedent said that there would not have been enough time for the race to finish under a green flag (i.e. normal racing)... hence they maintained track position by not pitting Hamilton.

So... looking at what might have happened if the safety car was 5 laps earlier... Mercedes would have realised that there was enough time for green flag ending, and they would almost certainly have pitted Hamilton for fresh soft tyres.

*Any reference to 'sporting regulations' and precedent above, does of course mean the ones that existed at that time. We now appear to have some new ones, that I assume will be written in before the start of next season. They will also need to amend the rule about overtaking under a safety car... that you are now allowed to "nudge ahead", but previously you were not and would have been penalised for it.

 

[Midwest]

Max’s aggressive driving has to be reviewed. Have not got the quotes, but even the other drivers seem to question it.

Last year Masi at the Belgian GP, he clarified that ‘All’ lapped cars had to unlapp themselves before the safety car retired.