Voltage Stabiliser

[sponge23]

Hi all, do any of you have any experience of voltage stabilisers? Can they be fitted on sub-mains, or do they need to be at the origin?

Thanks in advance

 

[Pete999]

Used to fit them on most of the installs I did, you are only conditioning the installation after the stabiliser so it shouldn't be a problem providing it is sized correctly, what sort are you using?

 

[sponge23]

Looking to condition 2 D.B's which supply some box manufacturing machines (designed for european voltage).
There are 2 large P.V. arrays further down stream which make the voltage fluctuate. Voltage at the origin is typically at +240V.

 

[sponge23]

Looking to use the Marshall Tufflex ones. What would you recommend?

Thanks.

 

[Pete999]

Looking to use the Marshall Tufflex ones. What would you recommend?

Thanks.

They make trunking don't they? Can't recall the type we used it was a long time ago

 

[ImpededLoop]

If you're looking at voltage optimisation bear in mind that most units just reduce the voltage by a percentage. Therefore if the incoming voltage is fluctuating, so will the outgoing voltage.

They are basically step down transformers. Some can supposedly maintain a steady output voltage.

 

[Knobhead]

Static induction regulators will maintain a steady output but they’re not cheap. Have a look for PowerPerfector.

A word of warning, there was a lad on here had trouble with one as the tapping of the secondary winding had been set too low. Not a big problem if you know how to solve it.

They market it as “cutting edge technology”, I found the same thing in a 1938 copy of Stubbs electrical encyclopaedia.

 

[ElectroChem]

They market it as “cutting edge technology”, I found the same thing in a 1938 copy of Stubbs electrical encyclopaedia.

Someone needs to make a holesaw that will hold a cutting edge for 77 years, I'm sick of replacing mine!

 

[Knobhead]

That is wishful thinking.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

What is the specific problem you want to address by installing these units? What is the voltage at the machine input under normal operating conditions, and what do the makers specify?

Also, you say the PV arrays are downstream, which I take to mean on the load side of the proposed voltage stabilisers. That might not be permissible - needs clarification.

 

[Charlie_]

You could just use a transformer

 

[ImpededLoop]

You could just use a transformer

I mentioned that in an earlier post:

If you're looking at voltage optimisation bear in mind that most units just reduce the voltage by a percentage. Therefore if the incoming voltage is fluctuating, so will the outgoing voltage.

They are basically step down transformers. Some can supposedly maintain a steady output voltage.

 

[shanky887614]

I mentioned that in an earlier post:

the problem with most transformers is the output would vary depending on the imput.

an upfront continuous ups would work if you could find one that takes 200-415 volts in and outputs 240/415 out.

basically the fluctuating voltage would just affect the primary side of the ups (there are different types of ups and not all do this)

 

[ImpededLoop]

the problem with most transformers is the output would vary depending on the imput.

I mentioned that as well!!!

 

[Knobhead]

A static induction regulator is a transformer but the output doesn’t vary with the input.

I could post a drawing and explanation but what’s the point, the OP’s vanished.

 

[dansk]

Don't know enough on this subject but be careful with the PV, think most voltage stabilisers can't handle pv, check in solar forum for more clarification.

 

[Charlie_]

Just using a transformer will be fine.
the voltage will fluctuate +10% -6% here as it does abroad so no problem..
legally through harmonisation rules you shouldn't need to do anything

 

[Knobhead]

A transformer will not provide voltage stability. The O/P will vary with the I/P which isn’t what this question is about.

 

[shanky887614]

A transformer will not provide voltage stability. The O/P will vary with the I/P which isn’t what this question is about.

thats why i sugested a ups.

because the grid supply will technically just become the charging circuit and everything runs off the ups battery this problem is negated.

 

[Charlie_]

The OP also mentioned the supply is for equipment used on European system, therefore, doesn't need a voltage stabiliser

 

[Pete999]

The OP also mentioned the supply is for equipment used on European system, therefore, doesn't need a voltage stabiliser

Why not?

 

[sponge23]

Sorry guys zoned out for a few days..
From memory the manuals for the machines specify 220-230V.

 

[Charlie_]

Why not?

Because, their voltage like ours, fluctuates at the same tolerances

european harmonisation

 

[davesparks]

Because, their voltage like ours, fluctuates at the same tolerances

european harmonisation

No it doesn't, harmonisation is a big myth, nobody has changed anything!

 

[Charlie_]

No it doesn't, harmonisation is a big myth, nobody has changed anything!

Not strictly true.. Voltage levels vary but the tolerances are the same.
therefore, voltage stabiliser not required, just a transformer

Irrelevant anyway as the kit is rated 230

 

[davesparks]

Not strictly true.. Voltage levels vary but the tolerances are the same.
therefore, voltage stabiliser not required, just a transformer

Irrelevant anyway as the kit is rated 230

Not irrelevant, the kit is rated 220 - 230V apparently and out voltage is 240 -250V in reality. But it does occasionally dip lower so a transformer would drop the voltage too low sometimes. If the machine needs a more stable supply than it has at the moment then a transformer won't cure the issue

 

[Pete999]

No it doesn't, harmonisation is a big myth, nobody has changed anything!

Beat me to it Dave

 

[Charlie_]

Not irrelevant, the kit is rated 220 - 230V apparently and out voltage is 240 -250V in reality. But it does occasionally dip lower so a transformer would drop the voltage too low sometimes. If the machine needs a more stable supply than it has at the moment then a transformer won't cure the issue

im sorry but that is incorrect

 

[davesparks]

im sorry but that is incorrect

Which bit is incorrect?
The machine is rated at 220 - 230V

Our mains supply is normally between 240 - 250V bit dips towards 230 occasionally.

A transformer will adjust the voltage proportionally so will not maintain it's output voltage when the input dips.

 

[Pete999]

Beat me to it Dave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9a-mgghXRA

A bit childish but it gives you the basics

 

[sponge23]

Exactly Dave! I can count on one hand the times I've measured 230V at source!

 

[Charlie_]

Ok..
firstly, our nominal voltage is 230v (+10% -6%), the same throughout Europe.

Voltage dip.. Does the voltage not also dip in Europe or does that just happen in the UK?

 

[shanky887614]

Ok..
firstly, our nominal voltage is 230v (+10% -6%), the same throughout Europe.

Voltage dip.. Does the voltage not also dip in Europe or does that just happen in the UK?

wrong, the nominal voltage for new supplies is 230.

it is too costly to swap all supplies in the country to 230 from 240, a lot of machines etc wouldn't play ball

 

[davesparks]

Ok..
firstly, our nominal voltage is 230v (+10% -6%), the same throughout Europe.

Voltage dip.. Does the voltage not also dip in Europe or does that just happen in the UK?

Nominal voltage yes, actual voltage no.

Nominal voltage is what the politicians agreed to for whatever reason, actual voltage is what the output of the thousands of substation transformers around the country is. I believe the standard DNO transformer still does give 250V output, but there are other people on this forum who can confirm this.

Yes of course voltage dips everywhere, but that doesn't mean that they don't have to use some form of stabiliser for the machine in those countries.

 

[shanky887614]

Nominal voltage yes, actual voltage no.

Nominal voltage is what the politicians agreed to for whatever reason, actual voltage is what the output of the thousands of substation transformers around the country is. I believe the standard DNO transformer still does give 250V output, but there are other people on this forum who can confirm this.

Yes of course voltage dips everywhere, but that doesn't mean that they don't have to use some form of stabiliser for the machine in those countries.

going back a bit for 250 arnt ya? wasnt the last one 240?

i have only come across 252 once

 

[davesparks]

wrong, the nominal voltage for new supplies is 230.

it is too costly to swap all supplies in the country to 230 from 240, a lot of machines etc wouldn't play ball

The nominal voltage for every supply is 230/400
The actual voltage is more like 240/415 although the transformer will more likely be outputting in the region of 250/440 for all supplies, new or old.

 

[Charlie_]

230 +10% -6% throughout Europe!

the main reason was for import/export. Trading.
all european electrical equipment is rated at 230v.
check all your stuff at home, appliances, lamps, etc

 

[Charlie_]

wrong, the nominal voltage for new supplies is 230.

it is too costly to swap all supplies in the country to 230 from 240, a lot of machines etc wouldn't play ball

You are not making any sense
how am I wrong?
you have just agreed saying new supplie are 230
your machine 230/240 comment is nonsense

 

[davesparks]

230 +10% -6% throughout Europe!

the main reason was for import/export. Trading.
all european electrical equipment is rated at 230v.
check all your stuff at home, appliances, lamps, etc

That 230 is a theoretical nonsense, they have not changed the supply voltage in this country, or any other country in Europe.

 

[Charlie_]

That 230 is a theoretical nonsense, they have not changed the supply voltage in this country, or any other country in Europe.

That is why the nominal voltage is 230v +10% -6%, work it out..
The voltage across the UK varies significantly, for example in Kent when on an evening they import power from France..

i agree our voltage is predominantly 240v..
i actually base all my current calculations on 240v as this gives larger current values

 

[ImpededLoop]

Looking to condition 2 D.B's which supply some box manufacturing machines (designed for european voltage).
There are 2 large P.V. arrays further down stream which make the voltage fluctuate. Voltage at the origin is typically at +240V.

Just to refer back to the OP, the issue is voltage fluctuation rather than the actual voltage.

 

[Charlie_]

Just to refer back to the OP, the issue is voltage fluctuation rather than the actual voltage.

The issue was that a voltage satabilzer was needed for equipment designed for Europe..
Further information was then provided about the equipment
a voltage stabilizer is not required

 

[ImpededLoop]

The issue was that a voltage satabilzer was needed for equipment designed for Europe..
Further information was then provided about the equipment
a voltage stabilizer is not required

If it's just meeting 220V to 230V that is required then a transformer would achieve this.

However, there's a good chance that the machines will be fine on the UK nominal 230V supply.

It's not how I understood the OP though as it mentions fluctuations.

 

[davesparks]

The issue was that a voltage satabilzer was needed for equipment designed for Europe..
Further information was then provided about the equipment
a voltage stabilizer is not required

The issue was that the OP wants to stabilise the voltage at two DBs which are suffering from voltage fluctuations due to installed PV

 

[ImpededLoop]

The issue was that the OP wants to stabilise the voltage at two DBs which are suffering from voltage fluctuations due to installed PV

That's how I understood the issue as well.

 

[sponge23]

Even before the PV's were installed, the voltage was pretty high. The machines have 3P motors, and the control gear is 24V. Would the 24V PSU be affected by the incoming voltage fluctuating?

 

[Charlie_]

3p motors? 3 phase?
is the 24v DC or AC?
What sort of PSU is it?
you will also find that such devices are rated at 230v, as is the same with all electrical equipment throughout the UK and Europe.
They are designed with this in mind taking into account the respective tolerances

 

[Engineer54]

3p motors? 3 phase?
is the 24v DC or AC?
What sort of PSU is it?
you will also find that such devices are rated at 230v, as is the same with all electrical equipment throughout the UK and Europe.
They are designed with this in mind taking into account the respective tolerances

That would depend on how old these box making machines are. If manufactured pre harmonisation, eg 220 Volt generally with a typical +/-10% tolerance. Running at 240 volts will be at the very top end of that tolerance, and if there seeing closer to 250 volts, ...not very good at all!!

 

[Charlie_]

True if the equipment is rated at 220 and over 20 years old!
A simple check is to observe if the equipment has the CE mark..
in this case tho the equipment is not rated at 220v

 

[Knobhead]

When can we get rid of the myth of 230V?

The specification for new distribution transformers is 11/.433KV. NOT 11/.4KV