what to suggest when no circuits have rcd protection

[The Ghost]

I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that the EICR has been compiled by others and you are now carrying out remedial works based on it?

Yes

 

[Risteard]

Yes

OK. In that case I would just carry out whatever remedial works have been asked for. I don't think it's your job to assess the validity of the original report.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Lol, nothing like making things clear.
"We are doing EICR's on four large buildings with various states of RCD/or no protection. We C1 cables buried in walls in one building. C2 People could access outside with equipment and cleaners sockets. C3 any area that has none of these but are used by non competent office staff. That last sentence came across badlly perhaps. perhaps I should say "are for general use without the supervision of a skilled or instructed person" Leading to unsatisfactory on EICR. Relying on Reg 411.3.3"
Is now: We are doing the remedials for ECIRs. They have used code C1 for.....

 

[The Ghost]

I find it hard to understand how that is of relevance to what I have asked for or posted

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Not exactly sure what it is you have asked for.
Your first post is a list of codes you apply, which then turns out to be a list of codes someone else applies.
It's been pointed out that a code C1 is not applicable.
I've also pointed out that a code C2 is also not applicable.
I further pointed out that there is no requirement to provide RCD protection for sockets which could be used to supply equipment outdoors.

So you could you please indicate what exactly it is you are asking?

 

[The Ghost]

Post 73/76

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Post 63.

 

[Risteard]

I've also pointed out that a code C2 is also not applicable.

Lack of RCD protection where now required might attract a C2 classification or a C3 classification depending on the specifics. It's certainly not correct to state that it can't be a C2 issue.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Lol, here we go again.
From what I recall, the ESC recommend a code C3 for most sockets and code C2 for those that may be expected to be used for mobile equipment outdoors.
The fact that there is no longer a requirement to provide RCD for such sockets notwithstanding.
I see you no longer have a reference to being registered with the NICEIC.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Seems I am incorrect.
They do not recommend a code C2, no code at all.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Lol, that ESC just can't get anything right.
Just noticed this: "Absence of RCD protection for portable or mobile equipment that may reasonably be expected to be used outdoors"
I wonder which Regulation that relates to?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Lol, that ESC just can't get anything right.
Just noticed this: "Absence of RCD protection for portable or mobile equipment that may reasonably be expected to be used outdoors"
I wonder which Regulation that relates to?

411.3.3 says mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32A for use outdoors.

Definition of mobile equipment (portable equipment (deprecated)). Electrical equipment which is moved while in operation or which can easily be moved from one place to another while connected to the supply.

So your carrying out an inspection on a premises and none of the socket circuits have additional protection by means of a 30mA RCD.....You look at the mobile equipment that's likely to be used outdoors like a jet wash, vacuum etc and non have an RCD plug top or not an RCD adaptor in sight so you speak to who ever is in charge or the person who uses the mobile equipment outside and they confirm your findings that the mobile equipment just gets plugged in to the socket with no additional protection.. What do you code this?

 

[westward10]

411.3.3 says mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32A for use outdoors.

Definition of mobile equipment (portable equipment (deprecated)). Electrical equipment which is moved while in operation or which can easily be moved from one place to another while connected to the supply.

So your carrying out an inspection on a premises and none of the socket circuits have additional protection by means of a 30mA RCD.....You look at the mobile equipment that's likely to be used outdoors like a jet wash, vacuum etc and non have an RCD plug top or not an RCD adaptor in sight so you speak to who ever is in charge or the person who uses the mobile equipment outside and they confirm your findings that the mobile equipment just gets plugged in to the socket with no additional protection.. What do you code this?

He is just checking the ESC recommendations.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

That would be a code C2 as per BS7671 Regulation 411.3.3.
It would not be a code C2 as per some cobbled together regulation made up from a current and a 10 year odd old Regulation.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As it happens, I do agree with most of the ESC recommendations.
What I don't like is when they make no recommendation for non RCD protected circuits of locations containing baths or showers, or when they make up these other so called regulations.

 

[Risteard]

I see you no longer have a reference to being registered with the NICEIC.

That's because the signatures have been removed as far as I am aware.

For the avoidance of doubt I am still an NICEIC Approved Contractor and a RECI Registered Electrical Contractor.

 

[Risteard]

Seems I am incorrect.
They do not recommend a code C2, no code at all.

It is specifically stated that anywhere where an RCD is now required for additional protection cannot attract no code. It must at a minimum be given a C3. This comes straight from BS7671.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

See, that's another problem with the NICEIC.
Don't like what BS7671 says, ignore it.

 

[The Ghost]

Anyway regs aside our job is to keep people safe. I and the OP merely asked for opinions on class codes on RCD's of not just one person but hopefully a more rounded fuller contribution on this matter. We need to communicate to the client any area we consider could be improved. The codes are one means of doing this. Hence the hope of pragmatic discussion as opposed to sniping at contributors. Clearly this is a grey area that needs some more definition/guidance. I do not wish to guide a client toward needless work but to a safer place to work or live in. All opinions welcomed! I want intelligent discussion on this matter not vacuous LOL blah blah blah. I see your not NICEIC, that is plainly not helping the Discussion to go forward.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

No I'm not, I'm IET and JIB, though how that prevents a discussion from moving forward, I don't know.
Still you have Risteard who can discuss how the IET want a minimum code C3, but the NICEIC, no code at all.