UK What would you do?

[Mindgirl]

I was asked to see why a set of sockets weren’t working in the house (which appear to be a ring circuit based on breakers)
There was no power on either leg in any of the sockets.
Cables appear to run down from loft, which is totally inaccessible unless you are a small child in any of the rooms that have no power
I was told by clients neighbour (who is looking after her) that she is 92 and doesn’t really want much work, just a quick repair.
The consumer unit is not accessible - gas meter is in front of it. Solar company (I do t know if I am allowed to name) apparently recently put it in and had to remove front flap to even put it in place. So neither gas meter company or solar company look bathed in glory. Said solar company also monitor her install, and regularly rinse her for money claiming there is a fault in her system needing fixing. That’s after rinsing her for money a year ago for the install despite probably not needing one. I have told client they need to ask if solar company would like to put it right. And we need to get gas meter moved. There is no evidence of accreditation (MCS nor competency) on solar company website (I imagine they sub) - so only recourse maybe trading standards . Pic attached

 

[Timbo]

Where are the blanks in the CU?

 

[littlespark]

What’s the distance there between the circuit breakers and the yellow gas hose?

Just out of interest… it’s too close whatever it is.

No blanks over the unused ways in the CU… that’s a C1 right away.

Top right…. Is that an old style rcd? But there’s rcbo’s in the board? ( at first, they look like mcbs, but there is a test button under the switches)
If there’s a fault, is it likely to trip the main rcd instead of the circuit….. taking out the whole install?

Where is the “overvoltage protection device” that the yellow sticker mentions?



All that aside, I’m not sure what course of action can be taken… MCS or not, they should still be under NICEIC or NAPIT, maybe they can assist?

Citizens advice?

 

[Mindgirl]

I couldn’t find any listing of the solar company on NiCEIC or NAPIT.

All kinds of wrong really and does need to be properly sorted.

I’m also wondering if I can take over solar monitoring (it’s a solar edge system which I am certified on) to prevent further ‘monitoring, by them

 

[Rockingit]

I would have thought that a phone call to the emergency line on the gas company would see that meter moved asap for nothing as they have a statute duty of care.

Thereafter, you can sort out the safety issues with the consumer unit, test that old RCD. Those are the priorities here.

THEN you can look at circuit faults and whatever contract/s exist with the solar setup - I suspect it's a rent-a-roof job where the output isn't keeping up with the monthly billing?? Not my area of expertise so that's for others to advise on.

 

[snowhead]

It's not the gas supply / meter that's the problem, so nothing will be done for free.
The gas supply was existing before the current C.U was installed and most likely before the previous C.U.
The supply looks to come up through the floor so the only solution for that would be an external gas meter box all at cost to the customer.

It's the installation of the C.U that's the problem, both in the wrong place and non compliant.

Did they leave any paperwork for the install, is it registered with L.A, ?

To start, get the neighbour to contact them (or you do it) and say they are having an investigation into the installation and need paperwork. and see what the installers reaction is.

 

[Mindgirl]

It's not the gas supply / meter that's the problem, so nothing will be done for free.
The gas supply was existing before the current C.U was installed and most likely before the previous C.U.
The supply looks to come up through the floor so the only solution for that would be an external gas meter box all at cost to the customer.

It's the installation of the C.U that's the problem, both in the wrong place and non compliant.

Did they leave any paperwork for the install, is it registered with L.A, ?

To start, get the neighbour to contact them (or you do it) and say they are having an investigation into the installation and need paperwork. and see what the installers reaction is.

The neighbours are doing that to start with and contacting gas board - as no paperwork left

And I did think all the above sorted before looking into problem circuit

Ps from
What I understand the previous consumer unit was a fuse type board, and was ‘upgraded’ to allow a solar install

 

[davesparks]

What would I do?
I would do the job I had been asked to do and investigate why the sockets aren't working and fix that.
I would also fit blanks to the CU and fix any other immediate danger either temporarily or permanently.

And I would also advise the customer on what is obviously wrong and how they could proceed with it.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Same here, I'd set about the fault finding I'd been asked to do. The board cover may be awkward to remove, and it's an uncomfortable space to work in, so I'd start by doing everything I could without having to open the the CU.

 

[Mindgirl]

Thanks. As mentioned I tried to find why the power was not going to sockets. They cables appear to run up to the ceiling, and into a loft that I can’t get into (it’s a bungalow with very low roof truss) the one part of the loft I can get into doesn’t have anything I can see related to problem circuit. So one question is if there is any continuity from the cu to that circuit. There isn’t any other socket which is live that does
Client doesn’t want ceiling taken down or any substantial rewiring.

 

[Tim Court]

Really annoys me to see the elderly getting ripped off. We’ll all be old one day. Spent the last few years of my dear old dad’s life fighting off all sorts of robbing barstewards.
I would suggest you put your charitable hat on, delve in and involve anyone who will listen - accreditation bodies, trading standards etc, and do a thorough investigation of what the poor old girl has had dumped upon her, report it and put it right - starting by ripping that cu out. Watchdog would have loved this…

 

[timhoward]

Can we assume the sockets worked before the CU was changed?
Looking at the standard of work, my armchair guess would be the live or CPC's were too short (they can be very short on an old Wylex with fuses) so they simply didn't reconnect them.
My thoughts -
1) They obviously got the front on somehow, so however unpleasant it is, you can get it off.
2) All the circuits seem to go CU using the top knock-outs, so the bottom line is that the RFC is either there or not.

 

[davesparks]

Thanks. As mentioned I tried to find why the power was not going to sockets. They cables appear to run up to the ceiling, and into a loft that I can’t get into (it’s a bungalow with very low roof truss) the one part of the loft I can get into doesn’t have anything I can see related to problem circuit. So one question is if there is any continuity from the cu to that circuit. There isn’t any other socket which is live that does
Client doesn’t want ceiling taken down or any substantial rewiring.

What testing have you carried out so far?

Assuming this has worked at some point in time then I don't see why you'd be thinking about getting into the loft, removing ceilings or even rewiring anything.

Do some testing, establish the facts of the situation and then plan your next move.

If a whole circuit appears to be off I'd be checking the simple things such as whether the OCPD is open or closed.

 

[Dan]

I've cleaned the thread, apologies to @Mindgirl for waffling in her thread, and to @nicebutdim who i brought with me off topic.

 

[DefyG]

Assuming the circuit worked since the board replacement, I’d check for a faulty mcb (when indicating ON, it may still be open circuit), and is it seated properly on the bus bar? It may have been tightened by the cowboys gun (impact driver) that can ruin an otherwise good mcb.
Also the actual L & N cables are terminated correctly in the board and not loosened off.

 

[westward10]

If you don't want to interfere with the board switch it off and do some continuity tests from neutrals and cpcs at the dead sockets to other accessories to see if those conductors are actually in play.

 

[davesparks]

If you don't want to interfere with the board switch it off and do some continuity tests from neutrals and cpcs at the dead sockets to other accessories to see if those conductors are actually in play.

If they don't want to do the job then walk away and advise the customer to call an electrician.

 

[ipf]

Obviously the 'solar' firm are shysters and cowboys. The job's a disgrace.
I, also, can't stand such situations where our old folk are taken advantage of by unscrupulous, robbing barstewards.
It needs sorting but would getting the originals back in cause even more problems.
Just more disgraceful wasters that, unfortunately, our society seems to be riddled with.
It's so difficult to advise regarding fault finding from afar. Good luck.

 

[Rockingit]

I would have thought that a phone call to the emergency line on the gas company would see that meter moved asap for nothing as they have a statute duty of care.

Thereafter, you can sort out the safety issues with the consumer unit, test that old RCD. Those are the priorities here.

THEN you can look at circuit faults and whatever contract/s exist with the solar setup - I suspect it's a rent-a-roof job where the output isn't keeping up with the monthly billing?? Not my area of expertise so that's for others to advise on.

OK, so having re-read the OP I realise I’d missed that the CU was fitted after the meter - that does give some issues. Although you really have to ask WTF were they thinking as surely it must have been harder to fit it there than somewhere else.

The most plausible reason for ending up with both legs of a Ring dead, in such a shoddy install, may well be as daft as the terminal on the MCB not having been tightened on either the outgoing or busbar side, so I’d be looking at that first before starting to disassemble for testing. Then make good for safety and you don’t find anything too severe to stop you from signing the minor works certificate! THEN find the cowboys who did this and send the boys round.

 

[littlespark]

What i expect would be that's where the old fusebox was sited..... and the gas meter was put in front of it.

It would have been easier in the long run to joint all the cables in a big enclosure and extend them somewhere more accessible for the new board..... but that's too much thinking for some people. Lets just change it where it is.... however awkward it is.


Its not something you can "walk away" from now.... That's just kicking the can down the road for the next electrician.
There are live busbars there, That needs addressed for a start.