Whats your thoughts on this

[AJshep]

Whats everyones thoughts on this picture ? It was taken in a new build property.
The contractors are still building over the road and the electricians are still working on the building site.
Obviously everyone can see no identification on the switch wires but most of the switches do. What bugs me is the connector block on the CPC, why the hell haven't they taken it to the metal backbox. They have done this on every switch.
I was going to pull them up but every switch has got the little plastic caps over the 3.5mm screws so technically there is no exposed metal.

The only reason I can think they do this is to save time when second fixing, as I guess feeding the switch means multiple CPCs to connect.

Anyone else this this is awful or is it just me.

 

[telectrix]

it'sa disgrace and should be brought to the attention of someone who cares about safe installation, with the clout to get it rectified.

 

[Squid]

It may be within regs but its a bodge, think on the saving on connector blocks, also the wall should have been painted before the face plates had been attached, paint on the face plate nasty paint lines going around the aperture.

How much are these house being sold for as the snagging list will be fun to read.

 

[Andy78]

I have no idea why this would be done apart from incompetence. It would be no easier nor save any time.

 

[telectrix]

could just be a competition, to see if the sparks could out-bodge the plumbers.

 

[Octopus]

Over sleeving the cables isn't important, and the use of choc block to terminate the CPC is just down right lazy/ a mark of incompetence

 

[Squid]

With something like that what other corners have been cut, I feel sorry for the families mortgaging themselves up to the hilt for sh!te like this.

 

[Squid]

could just be a competition, to see if the sparks could out-bodge the plumbers.

Maybe they know the plumber will "nip" the T+E so saving the earth as a feed.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Whats everyones thoughts on this picture ? It was taken in a new build property.
The contractors are still building over the road and the electricians are still working on the building site.
Obviously everyone can see no identification on the switch wires but most of the switches do. What bugs me is the connector block on the CPC, why the hell haven't they taken it to the metal backbox. They have done this on every switch.
I was going to pull them up but every switch has got the little plastic caps over the 3.5mm screws so technically

go on you know that you want to get your screwdriver to it.

 

[Octopus]

Thing is .... I bet they get signed off without any comments or rework by some poor QS who won't look at this sort of thing.

 

[AJshep]

Glad everyone is in agreement.
Like i say every switch is like this. Reckon Its done because they have trouble putting 3 or 4 Cpcs into the earth terminal of the KO box, a fly lead would obviously waste valuable time...
Thing is all the time the plastic screw caps are on it compiles even though its dogs mess !

Edit....
I forgot to add, every switch has decorators chaulk round it too.
Walls are just taped, jointed, and painted.
Cheap as chips.

 

[westward10]

How do the plastic caps make it comply, the back box requires earthing regardless.

 

[Squid]

So how much are they being sold for, you are in the SE so I bet not cheap.

 

[Squid]

Glad everyone is in agreement.
Like i say every switch is like this. Reckon Its done because they have trouble putting 3 or 4 Cpcs into the earth terminal of the KO box, a fly lead would obviously waste valuable time...
Thing is all the time the plastic screw caps are on it compiles even though its dogs mess !

Edit....
I forgot to add, every switch has decorators chaulk round it too.
Walls are just taped, jointed, and painted.
Cheap as chips.

You can get them in, usually 3 as norm 4 with a spur etc etc.

What gets me is that people don't have pride in their work but then again I do understand that if you are not fast enough you can get kicked off site and as the job is nearing completion more corners are cut.

 

[AJshep]

How do the plastic caps make it comply, the back box requires earthing regardless.

Im hope your right.
I was told this by an NIC inspector in February (i know, i know) it came up as it was around that time that i noticed click started providing the caps on their accessories.

He agreed that it was not good practice but said the plastic cap provides Insulation, I know the regs state that every point should a earth cable available...

Im happy to bring this up but dont want the bar strewards fobbing me off on a technicality.

 

[Pete999]

Glad everyone is in agreement.
Like i say every switch is like this. Reckon Its done because they have trouble putting 3 or 4 Cpcs into the earth terminal of the KO box, a fly lead would obviously waste valuable time...
Thing is all the time the plastic screw caps are on it compiles even though its dogs mess !

Edit....
I forgot to add, every switch has decorators chaulk round it too.
Walls are just taped, jointed, and painted.
Cheap as chips.

There is only 1 cpc, done by someone who shouldn't be doing electrics imo.

 

[AJshep]

So how much are they being sold for, you are in the SE so I bet not cheap.

Range from 210,000- 450,000.
I know you can get a few cpc in the lug.
Its the only logical reason i could think really

 

[telectrix]

so what happens when Mr.new house owner decides to fit shiny chrome switches, thinking the cpc was as intended? if the k/o box was earthed, at least he'd have some safety with the faceplate being earthed through the 3.5mm pins.

 

[telectrix]

Range from 210,000- 450,000.
I know you can get a few cpc in the lug.
Its the only logical reason i could think really

thought you paid that much for a dog kennel down south east. even up here jerry-built 4 bed detached ( but only by about 2 ft.) start @ £300k.

 

[Andy78]

Range from 210,000- 450,000.
I know you can get a few cpc in the lug.
Its the only logical reason i could think really

You can definitely get 5 x 1mm cpcs in one.

 

[AJshep]

thought you paid that much for a dog kennel down south east. even up here jerry-built 4 bed detached ( but only by about 2 ft.) start @ £300k.

These are so called affordable housing with some help to buy Part rent part buy jobbies, not particularly big, biggest properties being 4 bed 3 storey.

The contractor is a NICEIC company, think they have around 10-20 so called sparks, you know the kinda outfit... All drink in the same pub every Friday night and arm wrestle each other

 

[westward10]

I would like to see a Regulation whereby the fitting of those caps excludes the requirement for the back box to be earthed.

 

[Pepe]

Just throwing this out there. Maybe that is how that person was taught to do a switch.
I was taught at college to connect the CPC in a connector block if using a plastic pattress.
Could whoever wired the switch in fact be a mate/improver or apprentice and was confused about what to do with the CPC?
Nevertheless probably should be being supervised more closely.
And if it is a qualified electrician then poor show!

 

[Pete999]

Just throwing this out there. Maybe that is how that person was taught to do a switch.
I was taught at college to connect the CPC in a connector block if using a plastic pattress.
Could whoever wired the switch in fact be a mate/improver or apprentice and was confused about what to do with the CPC?
Nevertheless probably should be being supervised more closely.
And if it is a qualified electrician then poor show!

Most plastic back boxes have an earth terminal, down right laziness in my book, although perhaps that's how it's taught in the DI courses?

 

[davesparks]

Most plastic back boxes have an earth terminal, down right laziness in my book, although perhaps that's how it's taught in the DI courses?

Most regular pattresses do, but soft pattessess and dry lining boxes don’t usually have them.

 

[Squid]

thought you paid that much for a dog kennel down south east. even up here jerry-built 4 bed detached ( but only by about 2 ft.) start @ £300k.

Might be Brittany, this South East'ish.........

 

[westward10]

You can get separate terminals for dry lining boxes, you normally see the space for them in the corner.

 

[Pepe]

Most plastic back boxes have an earth terminal, down right laziness in my book, although perhaps that's how it's taught in the DI courses?

Possibly, however they did go to the extent of fitting the caps. Surely it would have been quicker to put the cpc into the back box

 

[westward10]

Fitting those caps had nothing to do with incorrect connection of the cpcs. It does not give the excuse of not earthing the box.

 

[telectrix]

maybe they've been tought to think outside the box.

 

[LankyWill]

Thats rough! Just bang a eyelet crimp on the end and self tap it to the box. Im not overly fussed about the sleeving as if you dont know whats live you shouldn't be playing with it.

 

[davesparks]

Thats rough! Just bang a eyelet crimp on the end and self tap it to the box. Im not overly fussed about the sleeving as if you dont know whats live you shouldn't be playing with it.

Why? There’s a perfectly good earth terminal in the box so why would you make an unreliable connection with a self tapper instead?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Can only think that the back boxes are all supposed to be plastic, but in some instances metal have been used.
The people doing the installation have been told to make off the CPC into connector blocks.
No one told them what to do if metal boxes have been used.

Probably find all the labour used are mates, improvers or Apprentices.
Probably intended to get a couple of Electricians in to sort it out near the end of the job.

 

[Andy78]

Can only think that the back boxes are all supposed to be plastic, but in some instances metal have been used.
The people doing the installation have been told to make off the CPC into connector blocks.
No one told them what to do if metal boxes have been used.

Probably find all the labour used are mates, improvers or Apprentices.
Probably intended to get a couple of Electricians in to sort it out near the end of the job.

That's a good point actually. Majority of new builds I see are plasterboard boxes throughout.

 

[LankyWill]

Why? There’s a perfectly good earth terminal in the box so why would you make an unreliable connection with a self tapper instead?

Thought it was sheared off, I must be blind. Although a self tapper is a lot more reliable than the soft brass terminals and the cheap back boxes.

 

[AJshep]

I would like to see a Regulation whereby the fitting of those caps excludes the requirement for the back box to be earthed.

I agree, and regulation 411.3.1.1 seems to state this.
All i was getting at is do those caps stop the metal backbox from being an exposed conductive part, Im in agreement with you and personally dont think they do. Im sure they are just for decoration.

Theres no doubt its rough ! however if I complain and bring it to the customers attention and it kicks off, I want to be sure. I dont want to come off as being wrong and them wiggling their way ouf of it.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The requirement is to earth exposed conductive-parts.
With the little caps, there are no exposed conductive-parts.

I think if you push it, you’ll be told to jog on.

 

[westward10]

I think it is pushing it to suggest the caps render it as being no longer exposed, they are hardly a permanent barrier.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I think it is pushing it to suggest the caps render it as being no longer exposed, they are hardly a permanent barrier.

Won’t be that hard to push when the alternative is paying for someone to go round and check every light switch and make good any damage to the finished decoration.

 

[pirate]

Just a thought...if a L comes adrift when you take the socket off...that backbox might be live...but if the guys fitting them have only ever encountered plastic, drywall back-boxes, they may not realise the consequences...and if so, they have no place wiring them in, in the first place...in which case, they have clearly had insufficient training.
Mr New House Owner might indeed fit shiny chrome faceplates, and assume the existing chocblock CPC termination was all that was required...
Bloody new-builds...well, you all know I hate 'em!
Plus, it isn't difficult to get 4 CPCs in the earth block thingy, or crimp them...
but then, I am not an electrician, so will put my hard hat on...

 

[pirate]

and why pay £300k for ----?
(He added, as an afterthought)

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Just a thought...if a L comes adrift when you take the socket off...that backbox might be live...but if the guys fitting them have only ever encountered plastic, drywall back-boxes, they may not realise the consequences...and if so, they have no place wiring them in, in the first place...in which case, they have clearly had insufficient training.
Mr New House Owner might indeed fit shiny chrome faceplates, and assume the existing chocblock CPC termination was all that was required...
Bloody new-builds...well, you all know I hate 'em!
Plus, it isn't difficult to get 4 CPCs in the earth block thingy, or crimp them...
but then, I am not an electrician, so will put my hard hat on...

There looks like only the one CPC.

 

[Squid]

and why pay £300k for ****?
(He added, as an afterthought)

Thats for cheap sh!te........

 

[westward10]

Won’t be that hard to push when the alternative is paying for someone to go round and check every light switch and make good any damage to the finished decoration.

Or pay a competent person in the first place, mistakes should be rectified.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Or pay a competent person in the first place, mistakes should be rectified.

Unfortunately, it seems to be becoming the norm to employ unqualified workers for most of a job and finish off with a couple of qualified.

 

[Intoelectrics]

Glad everyone is in agreement.
Like i say every switch is like this. Reckon Its done because they have trouble putting 3 or 4 Cpcs into the earth terminal of the KO box, a fly lead would obviously waste valuable time...
Thing is all the time the plastic screw caps are on it compiles even though its dogs mess !

Edit....
I forgot to add, every switch has decorators chaulk round it too.
Walls are just taped, jointed, and painted.
Cheap as chips.

Part of the problem is that the prices & time scales to do these houses is so tight that every opportunity to cut corners is taken. The caulk round the accessories is probably not the electrical contractors fault. Everybody is on a tight schedule and adopt the attitude "its not my problem".
Regardless, it is a poor job done by the sparky, so no excuse there!

Another thing I like to do on metal back boxes is fold back flat the redundant accessory fixing lugs. I have often found these to have nicked or pinched cables, especially if its a bit busy behind the accessory.

 

[Intoelectrics]

I like to line up the fixing screws either vertical or horizontal, but that's because I'm a bit ---- when it comes to the aesthetics. Also you know if somebody else has been messing after you have fixed it back

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I like to line up the fixing screws either vertical or horizontal, but that's because I'm a bit ---- when it comes to the aesthetics. Also you know if somebody else has been messing after you have fixed it back

Has to be vertical.

 

[Midwest]

also the wall should have been painted before the face plates had been attached, paint on the face plate nasty paint lines going around the aperture.
.

Think you'll find that most developers want the painters & decorators into the building as the last working trade. Stops the grubby hand marks & screwdriver marks from an uncaring electrical bod etc.

 

[Midwest]

Im hope your right.
I was told this by an NIC inspector in February (i know, i know) it came up as it was around that time that i noticed click started providing the caps on their accessories.
.

The plastic caps (hate em) are to stop you ---- arsehols taking hours lining up the screw slots on the fixing screws, in a vary OCD type way.