Will this old consumer unit pose any issues with an upcoming EICR?

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Discuss Will this old consumer unit pose any issues with an upcoming EICR? in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Neptune

Neptune

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I've had invaluable advice from this forum in relation to EICR's and clarifying my understanding that just because the consumer unit is "old", it does not need to be replaced. Since then, I had the EICR carried out at my rental property. This went to plan.

I am now scheduling my next EICR on a separate property and this has an even older Consumer Unit but everything works and seems safe e.g. no cracked fittings or exposed cables from my pre-inspection checks.

My question: will this type of Consumer Unit be okay to produce a satisfactory EICR?

Thanks in advance.
 

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I would give some serious thought about weather of not you want to be renting out a property with rewirwable fuses. There's a good chance whoever you rent it to won't know what to do if one blows.

You'll either end up having to go out and change it or get an electrician into do it.

At the other end of the scale your tenant might replace it with wrong rating or worse stick a nail in there.
 
If any sockets are likely to supply outside equipment ie a house or ground floor flat (3rd floor stated by NICEIC) this would attract a C2 code and gain an UNSATISFACTORY report
 
C1 codes are generally given to immediate rectification needed. e.g. exposed live parts. C2 is for urgent rectification, potetial danger. e.g. where garden tools can suffer cut cables resulting in danger to persons. either of these codes result in an unsatisfactory EICR, like a MOT fail, whereas C3's may just be akin to a MOT advisorynote.
 
Neptune said:
Thanks for the helpful responses. What is an average cost to replace such a consumer unit please?
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dual RCD CU around £350. all RCBO about £500+. if SPD and/or AFD included, could be looking at £800+. and depends on where theCU is fitted, access to work, area of UK. cheaper north of watford.

whaereabouts are you located?
 
What that lot said ^^^

One its own, a rewirable board is not automatically unsatisfactory (C2 or C1) but unless various other criteria are met it would fail on the lack of RCD support.

Rewirable fuses are not good for most folk. The folk who visit here probably can manage, but if you have ever had to rewire the light circuits fuse in the dark then you realise how much of a pain it is. Not to mention the very real risk of incorrect wire being used and a further fault potentially starting a fire.

You can get plug-in MCBs for such boards but really you are throwing money away that would be best spent on a modern board with RCD, or preferable RCBO, protection. RCD boards are slightly cheaper, but a fault on one circuit can take out several, where as RCBOs allow faults to be limited in the trouble they cause.
 
pc1966 said:
What that lot said ^^^

One its own, a rewirable board is not automatically unsatisfactory (C2 or C1) but unless various other criteria are met it would fail on the lack of RCD support.

Rewirable fuses are not good for most folk. The folk who visit here probably can manage, but if you have ever had to rewire the light circuits fuse in the dark then you realise how much of a pain it is. Not to mention the very real risk of incorrect wire being used and a further fault potentially starting a fire.

You can get plug-in MCBs for such boards but really you are throwing money away that would be best spent on a modern board with RCD, or preferable RCBO, protection. RCD boards are slightly cheaper, but a fault on one circuit can take out several, where as RCBOs allow faults to be limited in the trouble they cause.
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That's really helpful. If the electrician does not deem this unsatisfactory as part of the EICR then the plug in replacements sound like a god idea. I could have some spares in case there are any issues rather than dicking around with the wires. It's worth stating that in 8 years, these fuses have never needed replacing.
 
Neptune said:
That's really helpful. If the electrician does not deem this unsatisfactory as part of the EICR then the plug in replacements sound like a god idea. I could have some spares in case there are any issues rather than dicking around with the wires. It's worth stating that in 8 years, these fuses have never needed replacing.
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See what the EICR comes back with, you can post it here with personal details redacted (you name, location, who did the report) for comments if you want.

It used to be filament bulbs going 'pop' that commonly took out the 5A light fuses, but on inspection you should really check every one has the correct wire fitted. If folk follow the instructions and switch off before changing fuses they are OK, but plugging in a re-wired fuse to a live hard fault can end badly with burns to the hand.

The Wylex MCB replacements can be found in the likes of Screwfix, etc, but I suspect a new board is you best long-term option, not least as if anything needs adding later you can't add more to that board or get alternative fuse ratings.
 
Neptune said:
That's really helpful. If the electrician does not deem this unsatisfactory as part of the EICR then the plug in replacements sound like a god idea. I could have some spares in case there are any issues rather than dicking around with the wires. It's worth stating that in 8 years, these fuses have never needed replacing.
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The fuses never needing replacing is immaterial to whether an installation is safe.

our main testing is about ensuring the installation will disconnect in a specific time under fault conditions.

The fact your breakers have never tripped is because a serious fault has not occurred. If a fault does occurs do you have the correct size cable correct size breaker and continuous earth path to create disconnection times possible.

it may be you have the wrone size breaker the wrong size cable and no earths in the proper5y at all. Everything would still functionally work. but in the event of a fault would it disconnect in a time deemed safe.
 
Neptune said:
I definitely have earth wiring on my system as I replaced a damaged socket recently and remember wiring in the earth terminal on the socket.
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The concern is more the main earth from the incoming supply, and not just if it is present or not, but if it is adequate for fault-clearing for the highest fuse, etc.

In an EICR the electrician doing it would normally check each circuit to see if the earth loop fault impedance is low enough that any fault will clear in under 0.4s. The maximum impedance depends on the choice of fuse or circuit breaker, there are various tables of Zs value available.
 
Based on the picture I beg to differ on most of the above. There is no cover over the fuses which means live parts are accessible without the use of a tool by simply gripping one of the fuses and tilting it slightly. Without a screwed fuse cover as originally supplied by Wylex these boards present an immediate danger of contact with live parts. If the board does not have a screwed cover it is a code 1 if in an easily accessible position. Code 2 if it is generally out of reach or not easily accessible. Some of these boards have a cover with a knurled nut removable by hand, so if the cover is fitted there is no access to live parts , but nevertheless live parts can be accessed without the use of a tool so a code 2 is appropriate. Later boards had the screwed cover requiring a tool, but it MUST be in place.
 
radiohead said:
Based on the picture I beg to differ on most of the above. There is no cover over the fuses which means live parts are accessible without the use of a tool by simply gripping one of the fuses and tilting it slightly. Without a screwed fuse cover as originally supplied by Wylex these boards present an immediate danger of contact with live parts. If the board does not have a screwed cover it is a code 1 if in an easily accessible position. Code 2 if it is generally out of reach or not easily accessible. Some of these boards have a cover with a knurled nut removable by hand, so if the cover is fitted there is no access to live parts , but nevertheless live parts can be accessed without the use of a tool so a code 2 is appropriate. Later boards had the screwed cover requiring a tool, but it MUST be in place.
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I'm not, necessarily, disagreeing with you, but I am caused to wonder at how we've never heard of the hundreds of thousands who must have died back in the 70's and 80's changing fuses.
 
Things were different back then but I'll wager there were many householders who got a handful from these boards messing around with the fuses. In fact there was a case in the last few years which was reported by the NICEIC where an elderly man received a severe shock from a metal coat hanger which came into contact with a wylex fuse carrier in one of these boards without the cover fitted. I suspect you would not question any code 1 for accessible exposed live parts in a different situation, yet it always amazes me that inspectors consistently ignore exposed live parts in these boards.
 
It might be that folk do more dumb stuff these days.

When new the boards had a cover you had to removed before you could access the fuse carriers. True you did not need a tool, but enough to stop the casual idiot. But with time and laziness the covers get lost, and folk store crap alongside the boards, and that sort of thing happens :(

In years gone by when I replaced the fuses with plug-in MCBs sometimes I would cut out the cover so the MCBs poke through but stayed in place, etc, but if the board was out of reach or cover gone then sometimes it would just be left like that.

If it was mine then I would put in a RCBO board, only a few circuits so cost versus RCD board negligable and far less risk/trouble longer term.
 
radiohead said:
Without a screwed fuse cover as originally supplied by Wylex these boards present an immediate danger of contact with live parts.
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Of course, it (hopefully) goes without saying that a board change is the best course of action, for many good reasons, not least including the fact that tenants with a pulse tend to pay rent more quickly.

pc1966 beat me to it, but I was going to comment that if any Wylex without an outer cover within reach is an automatic C1 then presumably any with plug in MCBs designed to upgrade these boards are also automatically a C1, as the manufacturer can't have intended us to start hacking up the cover?
 
timhoward said:
Of course, it (hopefully) goes without saying that a board change is the best course of action, for many good reasons, not least including the fact that tenants with a pulse tend to pay rent more quickly.

pc1966 beat me to it, but I was going to comment that if any Wylex without an outer cover within reach is an automatic C1 then presumably any with plug in MCBs designed to upgrade these boards are also automatically a C1, as the manufacturer can't have intended us to start hacking up the cover?
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Not necessarily. When Wylex introduced the plug in MCB's the board covers incorporated a 'knock out' to enable the cover to be fitted with the mcb's sitting proud of the cover. This is fine as the cover still prevents finger access to the live prongs on the mcb's.
It should also be pointed out that without the cover in place where fuses are fitted there is a risk of molten copper being ejected from the carrier when a fuse blows, particularly with larger fuse elements like 30a. I have never heard of this causing a fire or injury but it was a secondary intended function of the fuse cover.
 
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The original intention of the shield was to prevent arc spatter coming out and setting fire to your Axminster. The originals had a thumb turn fixing which did not require a tool. It was not to prevent access to live parts although some may see this as it's intention now.
 
radiohead said:
Not necessarily. When Wylex introduced the plug in MCB's the board covers incorporated a 'knock out' to enable the cover to be fitted with the mcb's sitting proud of the cover. This is fine as the cover still prevents finger access to the live prongs on the mcb's.
It should also be pointed out that without the cover in place where fuses are fitted there is a risk of molten copper being ejected from the carrier when a fuse blows, particularly with larger fuse elements like 30a. I have never heard of this causing a fire or injury but it was a secondary intended function of the fuse cover.
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Many a time I've carefully tapped out that thinned out section with an old screwdriver and hammer, then filed the edges nicely ready to fit over the new plug-in MCBs . Those along with an upfront RCD were the big safety upgrade at one time. ?
 
With an installation of that age it may have VIR cable (crumbly) and or problems that would trip the RCD/RCBO fitted. So usually it is best to do some testing beforehand as it may not just be the cost of replacing the board but also rectifying faults found when doing some testing to assay if the RCD will trip on any circuits. In the worst circumstances it may require rewiring partially or more. Also tracking down any faults found can be so expensive that is it cheaper to re-wire, especially if it is on just one or two circuits. The fact it has not "blown" in the past decade or whatever may just be down to someone poking nails in the fuseholder for all anyone knows.
 
@Neptune. A 30A fuse will not blow, or even be overloaded, by a fault current 1000 times higher than the maximum fault current, of a particular type, that is allowed with current regulations. This is the main difference between your old board and a RCD or RCBO replacement.
 
Hi All,
Thanks for all your comments. I found this very helpful. I wanted to share the EICR results with you.
The electrician overall assessment is "satisfactory". He stated that the general condition was satisfactory and and correct cable and protective devices have been used. Readings were within the required thresholds. He has recommended a CU upgrade to provide RCD protection.
All the circuits have been coded as C3.

Please let me know if it would be informative to share any other contents of this report.

Given this assessment, it feels to me that I should still consider a board change but an initial quotation is £450 and perhaps in the short term, I should invest in the plug-in breakers. I would appreciate your advice on this.

Thanks again.
 
Given this assessment, it feels to me that I should still consider a board change but an initial quotation is £450 and perhaps in the short term, I should invest in the plug-in breakers. I would appreciate your advice on this.

plug in MCBs cost around a tenner each, and will give slight benefit. regarding the £450 quote, is that a duak RCD board or RCBO? with or without SPD? either way, you'll get far more benefit from a new CU, notably the RCD protection to all circuits.
 
Neptune said:
Hi All,
Thanks for all your comments. I found this very helpful. I wanted to share the EICR results with you.
The electrician overall assessment is "satisfactory". He stated that the general condition was satisfactory and and correct cable and protective devices have been used. Readings were within the required thresholds. He has recommended a CU upgrade to provide RCD protection.
All the circuits have been coded as C3.

Please let me know if it would be informative to share any other contents of this report.

Given this assessment, it feels to me that I should still consider a board change but an initial quotation is £450 and perhaps in the short term, I should invest in the plug-in breakers. I would appreciate your advice on this.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the update Neptune, we like to hear how things go ?

If you are happy to, could you post up a picture of the report (personal details of yourself and the electrician blanked out) so we could have a look?
 
I was going also comment about a tenner a time for the plug in MCBs. I don't know what others think but I'd have said it's a sparks job fitting them the first time as (from memory its been ages) the back fuse covers have to be changed, so if you factor in a hour of a sparks time you may well have spent £100-£120 on what is a short term fix. IMHO that cash is better going into a new board.

Also, as @telectrix was getting at, all consumer units are not equal. You want to be sure what you are getting. It could range from a screwfix special where any earth fault means you lose power to everything, to a decent brand board with surge protection, and each circuit having it's own earth leakage protection.

All that to say £450 really doesn't sound a bad price but do ask what board he'd fit.
 
goasis said:
I think the OP is either missing the point or not understanding the difference between MCB s and RCD .
Plug in Mcbs are not going to make any difference to the codings for lack of RCD protection.
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I agree that RCD is the most optimal solution but I thought that the plug-in MCB 's could provide a more maintainable and user friendly system in the short term.
 
Neptune said:
I agree that RCD is the most optimal solution but I thought that the plug-in MCB 's could provide a more maintainable and user friendly system in the short term.
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I see your point, and it's an interesting paradox, as 5 amp fuses for lighting tend to be more resilient than a B6 MCB if a bulb goes. However if a rewireable fuse does blow, then an MCB is obviously easy to reset.

It sounds as though you already understand that fuses/MCBs protect the wiring from overheating and catching fire in various circumstances, whereas RCDs save lives by turning off the supply in a fraction of a second if they detect any electricity going 'missing in action' due to a fault or flowing through a person.

It might help to consider that just as the current Wylex board dating from the 80's has served well for many years, a new board now will serve for many years and the cost per year of service will in fact be low.
 
Neptune said:
I agree that RCD is the most optimal solution but I thought that the plug-in MCB 's could provide a more maintainable and user friendly system in the short term.
Click to expand...
User friendly or not, I thought the idea was to reduce the number of C2 or C3's on the EIRC?(improve safety) Adding plug in MCBs doesn't really deal with those. The codings are all regarding lack of RCD protection and the construction material or the consumer unit.
Also, is this a ground floor flat with a garden? Any sockets which could be used outdoors is a C2. As is (if you go by the guidance in the codebreakers book) not having RCD protection for cables buried in walls less then 50mm deep.
 
goasis said:
User friendly or not, I thought the idea was to reduce the number of C2 or C3's on the EIRC?(improve safety) Adding plug in MCBs doesn't really deal with those.
Also, is this a ground floor flat with a garden? Any sockets which could be used outdoors is a C2. As is (if you got by the guidance innthe codebreakers book) not having RCD protection for cables buried in walls less then 50mm deep.
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There was something in the report about end user ease and I thought the plug-in breakers may help with that i.e. not having to replace a fuse wire if there is a fault. I appreciate that this doesn't play the role of a RCD.
This is not a ground floor flat.
 
Neptune said:
There was something in the report about end user ease and I thought the plug-in breakers may help with that i.e. not having to replace a fuse wire if there is a fault. I appreciate that this doesn't play the role of a RCD.
This is not a ground floor flat.
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Honestly, technology and safety devices have improved a great deal since that unit was fitted. Cough up the £500 and bring it up to modern standards.
 
As the landlord for a few rental properties... if it was my studio flat... I'd be replacing it with an all RCBO board... job done ! No worry, concerns, stress... no thoughts about what happens the next time there's an EICR, and I could sleep well at night...
 
Zerax said:
As the landlord for a few rental properties... if it was my studio flat... I'd be replacing it with an all RCBO board... job done ! No worry, concerns, stress... no thoughts about what happens the next time there's an EICR, and I could sleep well at night...
Click to expand...
This. It's only 6 circuits, a nice little "Fusebox" board, tidy job!
 
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