Discuss Worlds fastest EICR ? in the Electrical Testing & PAT Testing Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

LukeD

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On My rented property >

Simple info

1. 9 way split circuit board .Twin RCD etc .
2. 2 x bedrooms . living room, hall and kitchen

total time in property : 25 min.

Testing done

1. test of both RCD's
2. I x socket per circuit tested .


NO lights tested , No remarks about massive damp around double socket and one of the sockets on that plate not working . No removal of C/B cover etc etc etc. No test of earthing/Bonding etc


Paper work to be sent over


No wonder this business is ----ed ...
 
Here is one socket alone ! left Gang dead in the water .very very corroded and messy inside
 

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£75 special by any chance?

They must have spent longer writing the list of LIMS than they did doing the report...?
 
Thats down to my landlord who has a habit of using the cheapest possible labour and thinking he can fob off tenants
Would be interesting to do a proper one... then send both to the NICEIC or whatever body he's with... see if they do anything about it. Tell them you'll send the verdict in The Daily Mail.
 
Would be interesting to do a proper one... then send both to the NICEIC or whatever body he's with... see if they do anything about it. Tell them you'll send the verdict in The Daily Mail.
THis has crossed my mind. Today was a " evidence gathering day" They left the check far too late .The 1st April was some time ago. I have evidence of his time in the property .NO plates /sockets removed . Not even a full visual. It was "one socket per room test " and a RCD test . This whole scheme was a farce and its never ever going to be policed . And every property management company can easily find someone to "Be a spark for a hour" and get someone else to copy and paste the document .This is how bad he was.... NOT One screw driver !! Just a Kewtech and a plug/wire/socket lead . I want to see the documents and who signed them first . Old saying "never go to war hungry"
 
Here is one socket alone ! left Gang dead in the water .very very corroded and messy inside

Not sure the usual "no damage to decor" limitation would excuse not removing that one...

I've been surprised by how much the reading can vary on outlets on the same faceplate...

The one benefit of testing on a non-RCD property - the Zs test is so much quicker!
 
THis has crossed my mind. Today was a " evidence gathering day" They left the check far too late .The 1st April was some time ago. I have evidence of his time in the property .NO plates /sockets removed . Not even a full visual. It was "one socket per room test " and a RCD test . This whole scheme was a farce and its never ever going to be policed . And every property management company can easily find someone to "Be a spark for a hour" and get someone else to copy and paste the document .This is how bad he was.... NOT One screw driver !! Just a Kewtech and a plug/wire/socket lead . I want to see the documents and who signed them first . Old saying "never go to war hungry"
If/When they do bother to chase things up and hand out any fines, it will likely be to individual landlords, rather than the big boys who have the money to put up an appeal if necessary and pick holes in the law....

A few of mine have slipped into April, but there are 'best effort' reasons for that generally with tenants being difficult or having medical issues.
 
Thats down to my landlord who has a habit of using the cheapest possible labour and thinking he can fob off tenants
I'm guessing you're planning on taking it further then? Good for you if you are.
 
I'm guessing you're planning on taking it further then? Good for you if you are.
I will await the certs arriving .Then Call the council Get it logged and ask for an immediate inspection as I believe this is very very common . And 10000's of tenants are been put at risk by greedy landlords
 
I will await the certs arriving .Then Call the council Get it logged and ask for an immediate inspection as I believe this is very very common . And 10000's of tenants are been put at risk by greedy landlords

The fault is not just with the landlords. This can only happen if dodgy electricians are willing to complete a sham EICR.
 
Landlords want 'cheap" and a landlord is responsible and knows what a EICR should entail etc . They cannot just excuse it and pretend they had no idea. Some landlords only pay £60 a check etc . it suits them to offer 6 flats and the landlord saves a fortune .The dodgy sparks earns very good money for the day .The tenant is living in a property that could have serious issues ? And what if the guys are not trained at all and just issuing certs ? NO ONE is policing this .Anyone can offer tests and run off with a a lot of money ?
 
Landlords want 'cheap" and a landlord is responsible and knows what a EICR should entail etc . They cannot just excuse it and pretend they had no idea. Some landlords only pay £60 a check etc . it suits them to offer 6 flats and the landlord saves a fortune .The dodgy sparks earns very good money for the day .The tenant is living in a property that could have serious issues ? And what if the guys are not trained at all and just issuing certs ? NO ONE is policing this .Anyone can offer tests and run off with a a lot of money ?

There are also good landlords who, understandably, do not know anything about electrics, and therefore put their trust in the electrician.
 
I left a rented place last year after being there for nearly five years, I'd not 'looked at' anything electrical on principle except that I knew the RCD's all worked. In moving out, I decided it was quicker just to swap out an old socket front that had paint on it rather than spend ages trying to clean it up. Took it off.... no cpc!! Found a second hand plate that was passable as 'original', swapped and moved on. I see the new buyers of the place had another spark's van parked outside for about a week.........
 
I left a rented place last year after being there for nearly five years, I'd not 'looked at' anything electrical on principle except that I knew the RCD's all worked. In moving out, I decided it was quicker just to swap out an old socket front that had paint on it rather than spend ages trying to clean it up. Took it off.... no cpc!! Found a second hand plate that was passable as 'original', swapped and moved on. I see the new buyers of the place had another spark's van parked outside for about a week.........
That’s all fine, until the neighbours tell the new owners the last occupant was a spark.... that’s maybe why you didn’t get the work?

?
 
That’s all fine, until the neighbours tell the new owners the last occupant was a spark.... that’s maybe why you didn’t get the work?

?
Nah, it's all a bit more complex and political than that! Besides, the old neighbour runs a commercial M&E and subs his electrical work to me!!
 
Artisan baker has a wee rant in his latest upload about trying to decipher another niceic installers drive by eicr

Drive by EICRS ? thats the common phrase round my area and we aren’t yet at the stage of requiring an up to date EICR in Wales yet like the landlords in England and Scotland. I can’t wait till it all sets off and I’m then asked to carry out fault finding on a recently tested property. Not many sparks can fault find which is shocking (excuse the pun)
 
25 minutes is disgusting. i take at least 30 minutes to get from the van to the front door.
 
Landlords want safe but cheap in my experience. as long as they get their safety cert they are happy.
But this is the 'modern way'... as long as you have a certificate, then that's fine... you're covered. It happens in all walks of life, not just with EICRs. This approach can work... but as we've already mentioned, it needs to be policed. The various trade bodies should be doing this... with some of the money from the exorbitant annual fees !!

As soon as they start to call people out, cancel memberships and maybe have the odd prosecution... you've see a dramatic improvement overnight !
 
But this is the 'modern way'... as long as you have a certificate, then that's fine... you're covered. It happens in all walks of life, not just with EICRs. This approach can work... but as we've already mentioned, it needs to be policed. The various trade bodies should be doing this... with some of the money from the exorbitant annual fees !!

As soon as they start to call people out, cancel memberships and maybe have the odd prosecution... you've see a dramatic improvement overnight !
But the trade bodies are directly competing for those fees, so have no pressure to cancel memberships unless forced to by some outside body overseeing them - and that would need money to setup, so we end up back with the mess we started at.

One possible way of dealing with the EICRs would be to set up a system where they are all submitted for review by a suitable body who actually looked at them (or even just sampled some).

A large number would likely fail at the first hurdle with a literal 5 minute glance through that could be rejected and sent back to the landlord to require an updated report - and followed up through schemes where applicable.

Landlords would soon learn that getting a £75 report was not worth the effort and it might eventually settle into a sensible system...

Not sure who that body would be - maybe an online forum of professionals? ?
 
Just spoke to another landlord who claims £90 is the going rate for a 2 bed apartment and it should take 1.5 hours inclusive of the paperwork .
 
Just spoke to another landlord who claims £90 is the going rate for a 2 bed apartment and it should take 1.5 hours inclusive of the paperwork .

He is probably about right

I saw a local sparks on facebook bragging that they can do 8-10 EICRs a day and is making about a grand a day doing so
 
He is probably about right

I saw a local sparks on facebook bragging that they can do 8-10 EICRs a day and is making about a grand a day doing so
This is a question not just my opinion etc ! To arrive at property and then find out or be shown where the basics are etc .Then to drop plates etc , do bond/earthing , lights etc . RCD (ok..thats quick) and paperwork . All in a 1.5 hours Thats bloody fast ?
 
This is a question not just my opinion etc ! To arrive at property and then find out or be shown where the basics are etc .Then to drop plates etc , do bond/earthing , lights etc . RCD (ok..thats quick) and paperwork . All in a 1.5 hours Thats bloody fast ?
Is this a two man team though? you can have someone running around resetting rcd's, screwing faceplates back etc while the spark does the technical stuff (pressing buttons)
Still quick though
 
I budget for 4 hrs each one... and that's assuming there's nothing too mad going on. But I do check alot of stuff and the report is something that I'm very happy to put my name to. I don't get involved with competing for the cheapest price.
 
I can imagine many guys will have jumped onto this "horse" and earned thousands a week . Few adverts . cheap prices .Generic form filling . Cash or card reader payment . Customer happy as they have zero clue .Ride off into the sunset throwing "Burner phones" away etc . closing any paper trails etc . You could easily have earned 4-5k a week the last 5 months .
 
The electrical trade is not the only one to have poor inspections, I found large holes between back plate and chimney sealed with gaffa tape which pealed off as soon as it got warm.

I had a house buyer report done when buying this house, had not even realised they looked at the electrical work, but the report detailed how there was a disused fuse box between original and new false ceiling, however it was not disused.

But to be fair the owner can set limits and stipulate what it inspected and tested, there is no law to say what should be included in an EICR or what should get a code C2 and what should gets code C3.

“qualified person” means a person competent to undertake the inspection and testing required under regulation 3(1) and any further investigative or remedial work in accordance with the electrical safety standards;

“electrical safety standards” means the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018(3);

Now BS 7671 in the preamble has a date after which designs need to follow the book, so anything designed before that date is still controlled by the edition in force at the date when designed, clearly there have been laws which are are retrospective, but BS 7671 is not, so however much we feel it is wrong, if designed in 1954 then it only has to comply with the IEE regulations in force then not the IET/BSi regulations designed for a new build today.

Some times I feel being an electrician is more down to being an English student than an electricians, so it is hard to say some thing is wrong. What is needed is case law, once there are some court cases where the court says either all rented houses should be treated as new builds, or should comply as if built in 1992, then what we have in real terms is the phase "potentially dangerous" and some one has to decide what in real terms what "potentially dangerous" means.

I think we can say homes in 1882 were "potentially dangerous" that is why we started to publish
`Rules and Regulations for the Prevention of Fire Risks Arising from Electric Lighting' and 15 years latter with `General Rules recommended for Wiring for the Supply of Electrical Energy' it was likely little better.

But by 1966 we had earthed lights, and nearly all we have today other than the RCD, and the electrical safety council still publish this picture fuse-box-1.jpgwhich seems to say RCD protection is still not always required, clearly required with TT, but still optional with TN installations.

Don't get me wrong, I think all domestic premises should be RCD protected, but as yet there is no law saying it must be RCD protected. There are things which are cut and dried we have two IP ratings IP4X or IPXXD and IP2X or IPXXB one from top and other every other direction basic 1 mm from top and 12.5 mm any other direction so any missing MCB/RCBO blank is a fail as they are wider than 12.5 mm.

But although I may issue a code C2 the actual requirement for "potentially dangerous" is rather vague, and to say some one else got it wrong is hard.

The form shows the insulation resistance on each circuit, if it passes even with water running down the walls not sure how you can say it should not pass, in real terms it would not pass, but if it says it passed on the EICR how can anyone prove on the day the test was done the wall was not dry.

The forms say "An installation which was designed to an earlier edition of the Regulations and which does not fully comply with the current edition is not necessarily unsafe for continued use, or requires upgrading. Only damage, deterioration, defects, dangerous conditions and non-compliance with the requirements of the Regulations, which may give rise to danger, should be recorded." this taken from the IET forms, yes it says BS 7671:2018, amended to .............(date) but that is for the installation certificate not the condition report.

I will admit the form says "Manual operation of circuit-breakers and RCDs to prove disconnection (643.10)" and other references to numbers only found in 18th edition and "RCD(s) provided for fault protection - includes RCBOs (411.4.204; 411.5.2; 531.2) but you are give 8 options including "Not applicable" which can be entered when the circuit was designed before the date when RCD protection was required.

I still feel under protective device we should have both type and curve so we can see from the installation certificate if originally it had a better type of RCD, there are two things I don't like, solar panels and electric car charging as in both cases we may need type B RCD's fitted, but hard to find out without previous paperwork.

As yet not had to work out if type AC is OK or not, but getting to nitty gritty we know 1/2 inspection and test is wrong, but how can you prove it?
 

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