Young boy killed in pub garden

[pc1966]

Your contractual duty is to report it (and in writing) to the person who engaged you to do the work.
Your moral duty is to report to HSE if you genuinely believe an immediate danger will be ignored by them.

 

[Electrics]

Your contractual duty is to report it (and in writing) to the person who engaged you to do the work.
Your moral duty is to report to HSE if you genuinely believe an immediate danger will be ignored by them.

Not true, this is nothing to do with contract law. Your contract with the landlord under electrical regs are a separate thing.

Although not explicitly stated in the HASAWA regs, you have a duty to report it to the HSE as a dangerous occurrence.

If you know, for example, that light fittings in a pub are live, you cannot just report to the landlord who you suspect will not get it fixed and go on your merry way. If you don't report it and someone gets hurt you WILL end up in the dock alongside them.

This is dynamic, it's not a fixed black or white thing.

If brianmoooore's pub hurt or killed someone and it could be proven that he'd seen it and figured he'd do nothing because the hassle of finding another hole to have a few scoops in was too much, he'd face criminal charges. Look at how the news article references almost the exact same sentiments expressed by the guy on trial who ignored what he saw.

In a private household, it's one of those 'can't do anything' cases - you can't report someone in their own house and if they get hurt it's their problem. But in a public place you are being negligent if you don't report it - not reporting it because you didn't want the hassle from the landlord proves that you knew he would likely ignore it anyway which compounds the negligence. A landlord willing to rectify the problem would have no problem with letting you put it straight there and then pending further works.

To just walk away and do nothing as 'not your problem' is a scumbag move if it's a public place.

 

[loz2754]

Even an employee in a company is only legally required to report a dangerous situation through the chain of command, ie to their immediate supervisor.

 

[Electrics]

Even an employee in a company is only legally required to report a dangerous situation through the chain of command, ie to their immediate supervisor.

Not true, under the RIDDOR regulations you have a duty as an employee to report 'dangerous occurrences' which can include potential electrical discharging creating a hazardous situation - EDIT, sorry you're right, i thought you meant reporting it to someone else - under RIDDOR all employees have to report it to the person in charge. Only 'responsible people' should make the actual report to the authorities.

Members of the public are of course not legally bound by the letter of the law, but as i said previously, when it comes to the crunch it wouldn't matter, you would be deemed negligent and tried along with the workplace. Either way if you go on work business to inspect something that you are sure is an immediate but not obvious danger to the public you will get done if it comes on top and you said nothing. It would be like knowing that a kids bouncy castle was built on quicksand but saying nothing because it's not your business, and then unsuspecting kids bouncing on it sink and die. You won't get away with it, there are a whole raft of laws covering moral negligence etc.

 

[Mike Johnson]

It was tested in Court about six years ago if the Health and Safety at work Act applied to volunteer workers i.e. those acting without pay, the Courts deemed that even though they where not paid employees they where still at work and the Act therefore still applied, but what this did make clear was that if you where a customer at a restaurant or public house the Act did not apply to you as you where not at work.

 

[brianmoooore]

I was not at the pub in any professional capacity, nor had been asked to attend by anyone with authority to do so. I was there as a member of the public who happened to have expert knowledge relevant to the current situation.
I sorted the immediate live to earth problem, did something about the 460 volts to the emergency lighting circuit by moving the feed from the breaker on the opposite phase to the breaker feeding them on the other phase, so that they were all on the same supply, and filled the gaps in the front of the board with a couple of burnt out breakers (kitchen feeds that had given up the unequal struggle), before leaving them to catch up on their delayed lunches.
If anyone should be villified, it's the outfit that had replaced the lights a few weeks before, presumably issuing a MWC, and were responsible for the EICRs every three (?) years.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Unfortunately Brian as soon as you touched the installation you took on responsibility and the Health and Safety at Work Act applied to you, even if you where not paid or there on the authority of the LL, this again has been tested in Court where a Doctor stopped at a road accident to help and was held responsible for the treatment of the victim who died.

 

[brianmoooore]

this again has been tested in Court where a Doctor stopped at a road accident to help and was held responsible for the treatment of the victim who died.

In the UK? This wouldn't be a surprise in the US, but if this nonsense has reached the UK it needs pushing back against pronto.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Yes in the UK and about twenty years ago, as soon as a professional uses their expertise to remedy or help in any situation they become responsible for its outcome, sad fact, but that is how it is.

 

[FatAlan]

Surely they have to get an inspection done on change of Tenancy?

You would like to think so? I wonder if new tenants have solicitors involved to read the small print before they sign up?