16amp three phase sockets

[32aSam]

I have been asked to install three "general purpose" 16a three phase sockets. They will be used by different machines including some unknown ones in the future so i guess i need to install it as if they were drawing the full 16amps? What size cable and mcb would i need? ( runs on less than a metre, singles installed in trunking and conduit)

 

[Paul.M]

The "unknown" part of your question is the key. If you don't know or can't be told what current they will be drawing you will have to increase csa and mcb to the worst case scenario for that workplace. You really need to find out what's the biggest machine they will be running and do your calculations from there using the OSG.

 

[32aSam]

What would be the highest power rating you could run using 2.5mm on a 16amp mcb

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Your on site guide will have all the answers you require.

 

[Paul.M]

What would be the highest power rating you could run using 2.5mm on a 16amp mcb

With all due respect and without being offensive, any electrician would know this or have the relevant standard books to research/reference this. Please tell me what level you are at before answering your question.

 

[32aSam]

Sorry, i realise how bad this sounds now. I qualified at 2330 level 3, 2391 testing and inspection and 17th edition at night school a couple of years ago but never did much with it. My boss at my current job has asked me to do this due to his regular spark being on holiday and him needing it doing asap. My on site guide and regs are buried in my loft somewhere. His regular spark will be coming to test next week but we really need to have everything in place for him but we can't get in touch with him as he is in the dominican republic. I just want to make sure i'm getting it right. I've now found out that the largest machine they currently have is 3 kw.

 

[ian.settle1]

What would be the highest power rating you could run using 2.5mm on a 16amp mcb

You've answered your own question

 

[ian.settle1]

With all due respect and with being offensive, any electrician would know this or have the relevant standard books to research/reference this. Please tell me what level you are at before answering your question.

Another one for the silly season I think (PS Not you Paul)

 

[SimpleSimon]

Are you the same guy at collage who asked a similar question without the important info?

 

[32aSam]

Getting lost here. Re same guy at college question - this is my first time on here. Re answering my own question, are you saying i'm right with 2.5mm and 16a mcb.

 

[Paul.M]

Are you the same guy at collage who asked a similar question without the important info?

Ok, tell us more. Don't just leave it there.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Ok, tell us more. Don't just leave it there.

Think you answered on the other thread paul. Went a bit like
"Hi what size fuse do I need for a 16a socket?"

 

[32aSam]

Thanks for your 'useful' help. It was more the cable size i was trying to check, i'm not that stupid. Its nice to see you can rely on another electrician for a sensible answer on an electrical question

 

[ELEKTRIC]

Hi 32aSam,

My on site guide and regs are buried in my loft somewhere.

.
I would suggest you to go and get them down
They are very usefull if you do work with electricity

 

[SimpleSimon]

In all fairness Sam and I mean no disrespect, Think you should het your books down as your boss sounds like he could be calling on your qualifications more often and it's best to have em handy.
But if you've got a 3kw machine that's just over 13a. So 2.5 would be fine with a 16a breaker.

 

[Paul.M]

Thanks for your 'useful' help. It was more the cable size i was trying to check, i'm not that stupid. Its nice to see you can rely on another electrician for a sensible answer on an electrical question

With the qualifications you have you should be able to answer this off the top of your head. Fair enough we all have our bad days and the mind goes blank but if someone asked you the same question you would be thinking the same. Did you just ask the question in the wrong way? Maybe it should have been "what is the maximum rating for 2.5mm t+e? I haven't got my OSG with me". I believe that sums up what you are going through..... shall we start this conversation again?

 

[32aSam]

Fair enough, thanks for your help. Its just been a while since i've done anything and never done too much with three phase. I moved house recently hence why osg is buried but i shall get up there at the weekend and find it.

 

[dean7828]

if youre useing a commando type male/female socket you made also need a form of isolation between the board and the socket. you could use a rotary switch isolator for this.

 

[32aSam]

Whilst i'm on here you may be able to help with something else. I have the qualifications but very little practical experience and i'm keen to start working as a spark. Problem is i'm 26, married with mortgage a child on the way so can't afford to take a drop in money. Does anyone have any advice on what i could do?

 

[32aSam]

Thanks, have already bared that in mind

 

[dean7828]

i recomend you keep going mate do the am2 and Nvq quick as the format is changing this month, get youre gold card its the best toll you will ever need.

 

[Paul.M]

Fair enough, thanks for your help. Its just been a while since i've done anything and never done too much with three phase. I moved house recently hence why osg is buried but i shall get up there at the weekend and find it.

Ok Sam, that's the spirit. There has been sum very stupid questions popping up here lately and DIYers, just wanted to make sure no one blows themselves up....

The 2.5mm and 16amp mcb may not be enough due to start up current. You will have to check the manufactures info and see if its a soft start. Without knowing all the info I would say 4mm t+e with a 20amp C type mcb and ensure all connections are secure for the vibrations.

 

[dean7828]

i mean tool not toll lol!

 

[SimpleSimon]

Best I can suggest Sam is keep the job as like us all we need the money and do little things on your days off, bit of fault finding or minor works if anyone needs, stay away from anything that needs notifying though. And come on here, ask questions, join in. We don't bite much......honest

 

[Paul.M]

i mean tool not toll lol!

So tempted to make a sarcastic comment, but I won't. Did the same thing this morning. I put "with offence" instead of "without offence". I was the "toll" on that occasion

If you do it again just click the edit post button and change it.

 

[32aSam]

i recomend you keep going mate do the am2 and Nvq quick as the format is changing this month, get youre gold card its the best toll you will ever need.

Don't mean to sound stupid but whats the am2?

 

[dean7828]

AM2 is a jib requirement, think its usually a 3 day exam and 2 day coarse or something, its designed to test you’re practical skills and knowledge, think there is now a 30 question multiple choice at the end, just another way to make money out of the hardworking spark if you ask me but has to be done costs about £900

 

[glynnis]

Ok Sam, that's the spirit. There has been sum very stupid questions popping up here lately and DIYers, just wanted to make sure no one blows themselves up....

The 2.5mm and 16amp mcb may not be enough due to start up current. You will have to check the manufactures info and see if its a soft start. Without knowing all the info I would say 4mm t+e with a 20amp C type mcb and ensure all connections are secure for the vibrations.

Dont think you should be using t&e on a 3 phase installation should you???? If it was a high starting current surely you would use a 16A D-type breaker, not a 20A as the sockets are only rated at 16A?

 

[Paul.M]

Dont think you should be using t&e on a 3 phase installation should you???? If it was a high starting current surely you would use a 16A D-type breaker, not a 20A as the sockets are only rated at 16A?

Glynnis hello... The OP says 3 sockets on a 3 phase supply. And not s 3 phase supply to A motor. Each phase can be fed on what I advised due to it not being a 3 phase motor. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I always take a telling off as education and not as criticising. You know more than me on this matter, I will bow my hat.

 

[glynnis]

Glynnis hello... The OP says 3 sockets on a 3 phase supply. And not s 3 phase supply to A motor. Each phase can be fed on what I advised due to it not being a 3 phase motor. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I always take a telling off as education and not as criticising. You know more than me on this matter, I will bow my hat.

Paul hi, not having a go but the OP says 3, 3 phase sockets using singles, trunking and conduit, hence me saying i wouldnt advise using t&e.
Sorry if you think i was takin the wee, i think he was stating the obvious with his question and should have read what HE wrote?
Cheers, Glynnis.

 

[Paul.M]

Paul hi, not having a go but the OP says 3, 3 phase sockets using singles, trunking and conduit, hence me saying i wouldnt advise using t&e.
Sorry if you think i was takin the wee, i think he was stating the obvious with his question and should have read what HE wrote?
Cheers, Glynnis.

No offence taken mate. Back at college I hated motors and still do now, its just a subject I've got no interest in. This thread is about supplying power to the motor rated at 12A + the start up current it could spike up to around 20ish hence check if its a soft start motor. The sockets themselves can take a spike up to that amount but not a consistent load of 20A. I've read on the mk web site the results of there own testing on their db plastic sockets. I believe it can take 19.7A for a long duration until mechanical damage occurs due to heat. As for the t+e part who knows? As you've said/suggested it would be best in singles and flexible metal conduit if this is a workshop. I think we are all singing the same song but I may be out if key ha ha. Again, if I am wrong in any posts pull me up on it and I will not be offended. We all want to give our best advice to make sure they do the job correctly.

 

[glynnis]

Problem with using t&e on 3 phase would mean you would have L1&N in one twin and L2&L3 in another and anybody looking after would not expext 415V in a t&e, it should either be in singles or at least within the same cable.
We do want to give the best advice but as i said he should have read his question as this was also his answer IMO?
Not here to offend just trying to pass on what seems like a thousand years of knowledge, trouble is at my age i can forget some poeple are just starting out in this career/calling/life, just trying to help.
Anyway us yorkies have to stick together, cheers.

 

[Paul.M]

I know where to come now for motor advice, thanks. Btw your not a bulls fan are you?

 

[glynnis]

I know where to come now for motor advice, thanks. Btw your not a bulls fan are you?

Wrong shaped ball i'm afraid, and live a mile away from odsal!