30A JB's and 32A ring final circuits

[SplitJugular]

Now you are being stupid.

My point is that is there is a floorboard, a carpet, a washing machine or a 120kg fridge freezer in the way then in all these scenarios the jb's or sockets are inaccessible.

End OF.

calling me stupid is very counter productive, at the end of the day its not written in black and white anywhere out there and is open to interitation, and if we are talking stupid you were the one who replied to this thread with something completely off topic and with a question that is dicussed on many other threads titled 'Accessible area?' it seems to me you just want to argue the ---- over something that doesnt have a definitive answer.
now Murdoch what are your thoughts on using 30A jb's on 32A RFC's if you answer this then you actually contributed to this thread rather than fill it with off topic posts, thanks to you the majority of posts are discussing jb location rather than suitability

 

[Octopus]

calling me stupid is very counter productive, at the end of the day its not written in black and white anywhere out there and is open to interitation, and if we are talking stupid you were the one who replied to this thread with something completely off topic and with a question that is dicussed on many other threads titled 'Accessible area?' it seems to me you just want to argue the ---- over something that doesnt have a definitive answer.
now Murdoch what are your thoughts on using 30A jb's on 32A RFC's if you answer this then you actually contributed to this thread rather than fill it with off topic posts, thanks to you the majority of posts are discussing jb location rather than suitability

Using MF JB's under the floor on a ring is OK.

"is open to interitation" - surely you mean interpretation - and yes, I will state clearly AGAIN. Under floor boards is NOT accessible.

 

[kingeri]

To sum up, a JB of rating 20A or greater is suitable for use on a Ring Final Circuit. If the JB is to be situated in a non-accessible location (for example, under floorboards), then in order to comply with BS7671 it must be Maintenance Free and carry the MF symbol.

 

[SplitJugular]

Using MF JB's under the floor on a ring is OK.

"is open to interitation" - surely you mean interpretation - and yes, I will state clearly AGAIN. Under floor boards is NOT accessible.

now you are just being pedantic, im an electrician not an english teacher, also you can clearly state that under floorboards is not accesible but that is still your interpretation of the regs, untill you name is either 'author of regs' or 'GOD' you cannot say that this is fact untill you have sufficient source to back up your claim. also you still fail to answer the OP you are still trying to shoehorn in your opinion of JB's under the floor

Im asking specifically are JB's rated at 30A ok to use on RFC that is covered by a 32A MCB, now try to answer in a focussed manner and please forget about location of JB

 

[Octopus]

now you are just being pedantic, im an electrician not an english teacher, also you can clearly state that under floorboards is not accesible but that is still your interpretation of the regs, untill you name is either 'author of regs' or 'GOD' you cannot say that this is fact untill you have sufficient source to back up your claim. also you still fail to answer the OP you are still trying to shoehorn in your opinion of JB's under the floor

Im asking specifically are JB's rated at 30A ok to use on RFC that is covered by a 32A MCB, now try to answer in a focussed manner and please forget about location of JB

Because clearly a JB, non MF, under a floodboard is not accessible - why would you think it is?

 

[davethsparky]

On that line of thought is a socket behind a built in appliance accessible? Do you fit a socket with maintenance free terminals rather than screw terminals? Do they even exist?

 

[SplitJugular]

Because clearly a JB, non MF, under a floodboard is not accessible - why would you think it is?

you are an absolute joke of a person, im sure you are just trying to wind me up,
and to answer, inaccessible 'to me' means i can not possiblty access that point
accessibly without damage would be a much better way to state this situation in the regs to avoid all this wasted time trying to work out what it means
the regs book becomes more like the bible each day, some people believe in one solid message and wont budge , and the rest see all the contradictory and vauge thigs written whithin

now... Murdoch one last time.... can i have a JOINT (MF or not) above the fuse board in plain sight (in a nicely accessible place just for you) that is rated at 30A, is that 30A joint ok for use on a 32A RFC???

 

[Octopus]

you are an absolute joke of a person, im sure you are just trying to wind me up,
and to answer, inaccessible 'to me' means i can not possiblty access that point
accessibly without damage would be a much better way to state this situation in the regs to avoid all this wasted time trying to work out what it means
the regs book becomes more like the bible each day, some people believe in one solid message and wont budge , and the rest see all the contradictory and vauge thigs written whithin

now... Murdoch one last time.... can i have a JOINT (MF or not) above the fuse board in plain sight (in a nicely accessible place just for you) that is rated at 30A, is that 30A joint ok for use on a 32A RFC???

Just making sure that you realise that under floor boards is NOT accessible.

Next time you are doing fault finding, and you worry there may be a faulty JB under the floor, where exactly will you start cutting up the floor?

 

[SplitJugular]

Because clearly a JB, non MF, under a floodboard is not accessible - why would you think it is?

you are an absolute joke of a person, im sure you are just trying to wind me up,
and to answer, inaccessible 'to me' means i can not possiblty access that point
accessibly without damage would be a much better way to state this situation in the regs to avoid all this wasted time trying to work out what it means
the regs book becomes more like the bible each day, some people believe in one solid message and wont budge , and the rest see all the contradictory and vauge thigs written whithin

now... Murdoch one last time.... can i have a JOINT (MF or not) above the fuse board in plain sight (in a nicely accessible place just for you) that is rated at 30A, is that 30A joint ok for use on a 32A RFC???

 

[Guitarist]

On that line of thought is a socket behind a built in appliance accessible? Do you fit a socket with maintenance free terminals rather than screw terminals? Do they even exist?

Not even in the same ballpark as a JB hidden under a floorboard. I agree with Murdoch, if it's a JB under a floorboard, and is not clearly marked, then it's to all intents and purposes "inaccessible".
As I said earlier, MF kits are cheap, reliable and quick to install. No excuse for not using them nowadays. Any guy who tells you to hide JB's under a floor, rather than using approved MF connections and enclosures does not understand the regs.

 

[SplitJugular]

Just making sure that you realise that under floor boards is NOT accessible.

Next time you are doing fault finding, and you worry there may be a faulty JB under the floor, where exactly will you start cutting up the floor?

i would exactly start cutting up the floor after i use a fluke meter to determine exactly how far down the cable the fault is the make my best educated guess as to the route of the cable and work it out, i mean generally i would 'think' about it but i guess 'thinking' is a concept that you never quite grasped cus when monkey gets told 'do A,B,C it cant fathom 'D'...

 

[SplitJugular]

Not even in the same ballpark as a JB hidden under a floorboard. I agree with Murdoch, if it's a JB under a floorboard, and is not clearly marked, then it's to all intents and purposes "inaccessible".
As I said earlier, MF kits are cheap, reliable and quick to install. No excuse for not using them nowadays. Any guy who tells you to hide JB's under a floor, rather than using approved MF connections and enclosures does not understand the regs.

agaian im all for using the MF connections im under instruction to use JB's

 

[Tiny Spark]

Split Jugular if you take that view of things then nowhere is in-accessible.
You could bury a JB under 10ft of concrete but it becomes accessible with a jack hammer and a mini digger!
It comes down to common sense, I would ask myself the following question:

"If there was a fault on this circuit at some point in the future would I (or someone else) be able to find the joint without having to destroy the house in the process"

If the answer is yes then the place is accessible, If the answer is no then it is not.

Simple as that really.

 

[kingeri]

This thread is funny.

 

[driverman]

My opinion on this.. yes you can use 30amp joint box on ring circuit. As long as accessible (without moving furniture,carpets,floorboards etc. If no other option but to use a JB then maintenance free type. As for heavy appliances sited directly in front of sockets, badly designed, said socket should be switched via a spur point.

 

[davethsparky]

My question about sockets behind appliances was not about the isolation of it but accessibility of the connections. The reg being debated is about all screwed terminals not just JB's, so the terminal screws of the socket behind the fixed appliance are also covered.

 

[Risteard]

I'm not sure that a trap cut in the floorboards and screwed down with its location noted counts as inaccessible. BS 7671 does not require a welcome mat above the joint. I think it's a matter of opinion.

 

[Sintra]

agaian im all for using the MF connections im under instruction to use JB's

Well if you are using jb's then don't hide them under floor boards. Tell whoever it is that you are going to do the job properly and use a mf joint it's that easy.

 

[guest119]

yeh thought as much, this is what the NIC man had apparently told him on the inspection visit last friday, am i right in saying that during an NIC visit they may say something like this to challenge your knowlege of the regs and this would be an invitation to discuss whats right and wrong, being that the regs are not a statutory document and in a sense they are just theory, surely arguing this would prove to the NIC man that i have sound reasoning behind my work,

ive heard from other collegues that they were asked why back boxes were not earthed (apparently this has been dropped in the regs)
"why are back boxes not earthed?"
"because they dont have to be"
"what about when the face plate is taken off the box is then not earthed!
"you shouldnt work on an installation whilst it is live"

the last line my friend said apparently seemed to be the answer the NIC man was looking for

Line 4, where did that come from?

Boydy

 

[richy3333]

FFS is this thread for real??
JB's under floors are not accessible. Its a test of common sense - the thing that a few people on this thread are missing!