5 week short courses

[Starjack]

So is it possible to be a fast-food worker or an office worker and then go on a 5 week course and come out the other end proclaiming to be an electrician.
In addition to that should you be allowed to do a 5 week course and immediately go self employed.
Is it safe to do a 5 week course then immediately be let loose on the public.

In my opinion if you insist on doing a 5 week course it should be compulsory to work for a company under a competent electrician for at least 3-5 years before becoming self employed.

5 weeks!!! It took me longer than that to learn to swim.

 

[sparksburnout]

So how is this compulsory employment going to work then? Are firms going to be forced to take people on who are seeking to become electricians?

 

[Ian1981]

The fact that the term ‘electrician ‘ is not a recognised licensed profession with recognised licensed qualifications means that anyone who’s done some kind of short course can call themselves one I’m afraid.
It does kinda take the ---- when you’ve done a 4 year apprenticeship and added qualifications such as BS7671 and inspection and testing and worked hard to be able to call yourself an electrician.
Nothing against people coming into the trade without an apprenticeship, but short courses are ridiculous.

 

[ruston]

Maybe a bit like the old YTS lol. We had loads of them and most of them got kept on .

 

[spud1]

They're just gonna make the rest of us look good!

 

[ruston]

They're just gonna make the rest of us look good!

Yes you could probably be right. We got a lot of good lads out of training programme that would not otherwise of had the opportunity to get an apprenticeship.
There is a lot of untapped talent out there .
One of our lads won the Duke of Edinburgh Award.

 

[Starjack]

Yes you could probably be right. We got a lot of good lads out of training program that would not otherwise of had the opportunity to get an apprenticeship.
There is a lot of untapped talent out there .
One of our lads won the Duke of Edinburgh Award.

How do you get a job as the Duke of Edinburgh

 

[ruston]

How do you get a job as the Duke of Edinburgh

Marry the Queen.

 

[ipf]

Maybe a bit like the old YTS lol. We had loads of them and most of them got kept on .

Aye..….but some of these Electrical Trainee's are nearly as old as us, rus!!

 

[ruston]

Aye..….but some of these Electrical Trainee's are nearly as old as us, rus!!

Yes you are right . I still see the one that won the award . He trained in the machine shop and ended up an engineer
He is and was badly disabled when he started with us. He had a heart like lion.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You don’t need to do any course at all to be an electrician.
At least if they do a 5 week course and obtain some qualification, they’ll be qualified.

 

[Nigel]

Any industry that allows people to trade under schemes like the NICEIC after a five week course in people’s homes but those same people Would not be allowed on a building site doing the same job is a broken industry.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Any industry that allows people to trade under schemes like the NICEIC after a five week course in people’s homes but those same people Would not be allowed on a building site doing the same job is a broken industry.

Would you say, that it’s more or less broken now, than before, when you didn’t need to do any course or have any qualifications and MFT was the name of a kitchen supplier?

 

[Nigel]

Would you say, that it’s more or less broken now, than before, when you didn’t need to do any course or have any qualifications and MFT was the name of a kitchen supplier?

I cannot say. Always needed qualifications as long as I have been sparking.

 

[ipf]

At least you didn't get loads of people masquerading as 'qualified' with various organisations offering them the chance to.....and labelling them as such.

 

[Toneyz]

You don’t need to do any course at all to be an electrician.
At least if they do a 5 week course and obtain some qualification, they’ll be qualified.

The problem is the lack of on-site experience. Overcoming on-site problems especially in existing installations.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Thing is no amount of training accounts for stupidity amd chancers. I have known fully qualified sparks who i wondered if they could change a plug! How they got through the am2 is a miracle in itself. Have met labourers who could teach many a folk a thing or two. Being ex forces I know several who have gone down the 5 week route which coupled with there military training in say engineering of some sort they are very good and adept at what they do. Meticulous to detail and like the regs. Truth be told I dont have the nvq3 but have 2365 2/3 and other qualifications. Not technically an electrician on that basis but at the end of the day it comes down to knowing your limits we all choose an area be it house bashing. Commercial or industrial. Work within them. Think about what you are doing and always be open to learn more as there will always be something you dont know. If you bite off more than you can chew it will bite you in the backside.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If you can navigate Queens Regulations, BS7671 is a doddle.

 

[FatAlan]

Must admit I do cringe when someone posts ‘Newley Qualified’ . I’m one of those who’s done the short intensive courses and recently started 2365 at college even though some of it is more basic than some of the level three stuff I’ve already passed. I’ve recently been signed off as a domestic installer by Elecsa but as far as I’m concerned it just makes you more aware of your limitations. Having spent the last six months plus renovating my house I can safely say I’ve made a few small f**k ups but they have been invaluable learning experiences. Goes back to the previous threads in respect of the lack of incentives businesses have to take on apprentices.

 

[SparkyChick]

So is it possible to be a fast-food worker or an office worker and then go on a 5 week course and come out the other end proclaiming to be an electrician.
In addition to that should you be allowed to do a 5 week course and immediately go self employed.
Is it safe to do a 5 week course then immediately be let loose on the public.

In my opinion if you insist on doing a 5 week course it should be compulsory to work for a company under a competent electrician for at least 3-5 years before becoming self employed.

5 weeks!!! It took me longer than that to learn to swim.

Is it possible? Yes. It is (whether you like it or not) a recognised route into the industry.

Should you be allowed to go self-employed? This ties in to 'Is it safe?'.

What you've not considered is someone's relevant experience.

If said individual has sufficient knowledge and understanding, and is cognisant of their limitations then I see no reason why someone shouldn't set themselves up in business.

I did.

Should everyone who goes on a short course do this? Hell no.

Since setting up my business, I've gone back to college and have successfully passed on the level 3 exams and the week before Christmas I went and took the AM2 which I passed, so all I have left to complete is my NVQ3 portfolio and a written project paper.

Will I then be worthy of the title 'electrician'? Although to be fair, an electrician is someone who installs and maintains electrical equipment... I do that every day, so I'm an electrician.

Your route into the industry does not decide whether you're going to be any good, it's what's going on in your head that decides that.

I'd also like to point out, I can remember seeing some cracking questions on here from industrial/commercial sparks having their first go at house bashing and no one really bats an eyelid. But a short courser pops up with a question and suddenly they are incompetent and shouldn't be allowed to work in peoples home.

 

[FatAlan]

One thing I’ve come to realise in like is that -------- does baffle brains. There are those that know how and those that know why. The world tends to be governed by the bullshites who use the doers to their own ends. More fool me!

 

[peterhyper]

3-5 years training to do house bashing seems over the top to me, but as already highlighted some people are able to pick things up easier than others.

Starjack, You must be due an award for 177 posts and you only joined on Friday, is work quiet?

 

[gazdkw82]

This has been about talked to death. It's a tricky one because some quality Sparks will filter through but the general consensus of the courses is that you will be guided on how to pass. Not given the knowledge and experience to pass on your own merits.

That scares me.

 

[Andy78]

Starjack, You must be due an award for 177 posts and you only joined on Friday, is work quiet?

It's already been established he is an out of work plasterer on the wind up.

 

[Starjack]

Some good replies, and I agree with some of them But Some replies are answering the question wrong, If you have prior knowledge or a general grasp of things then that is fine.
My Main Question is: Should Someone who as only ever worked in a different field Ie Fast food outlet, office, window cleaner be allowed to sit a 5 week course and then immediately set up a company and go around charging the unsuspecting public for their services, then ( and it happens ) come on somewhere like here And ask how to do a job that they are charging some poor sod for.

 

[Squid]

If you haven't done an apprenticeship and been tied up naked in a basement with swarfega around your meat and two veg then you have no right to call yourself an "electrician"........

 

[Starjack]

3-5 years training to do house bashing seems over the top to me, but as already highlighted some people are able to pick things up easier than others.

Starjack, You must be due an award for 177 posts and you only joined on Friday, is work quiet?

On the contrary , we are snowed under but as I have explained in other threads, when you have money and power and Minions earning you money then you can do as you wish with your time.
I do a lot of work from my laptop now and it's not hard to do that while checking my bank balance and popping in here to reply to my fans.

 

[DPG]

Here we go again

 

[richy3333]

3 weeker with alleged engineering degree! Incompetence is incompetence. Some pics posted before.

 

[Squid]

On the contrary , we are snowed under but as I have explained in other threads, when you have money and power and Minions earning you money then you can do as you wish with your time.
I do a lot of work from my laptop now and it's not hard to do that while checking my bank balance and popping in here to reply to my fans.

 

[Squid]

3 weeker with alleged engineering degree! Incompetence is incompetence. Some pics posted before. View attachment 47670View attachment 47671View attachment 47672View attachment 47673View attachment 47674View attachment 47675View attachment 47676View attachment 47677

I was hoping that would be at the training centre, but I doubt it.

 

[peterhyper]

On the contrary , we are snowed under but as I have explained in other threads, when you have money and power and Minions earning you money then you can do as you wish with your time.
I do a lot of work from my laptop now and it's not hard to do that while checking my bank balance and popping in here to reply to my fans.

So at least you have no concerns with the 5 week spark courses as they clearly aren't preventing you from makng so much money you don't need to leave your house/mansion.

 

[Squid]

I think I will open up a training centre, Be A Spark in Two Weeks and charge 25% less than the ones offering a 5 week coarse, at least they will be out there earning money far more quickly.

 

[edexlab]

3 weeker with alleged engineering degree! Incompetence is incompetence. Some pics posted before. View attachment 47670View attachment 47671View attachment 47672View attachment 47673View attachment 47674View attachment 47675View attachment 47676View attachment 47677

We've all seen this sort of stuff before

You can't trust some people to do up their own shoelaces!

I think it's genetic some people just can't do it, they know this but don't give a @#!$
not just Electrical Trainee's as I have met a few very conscientious ones,
It happens across the board we've all met apprentice trained people your afraid to stand next to when they're working

My mate says it's Nature as in the stupid ones take risks that can kill them

He says H&S goes against Darwin's theory and allows these idiots to thrive by protecting them from themselves and the intelligent ones are becoming endangered as they're outnumbered by numptys creating lethal situations

ie in the past Stupid John the village idiot often met a nasty end due to bad judgement and his stupid genes die out

Unfortunately these idiots leave a trail of danger behind them before they get a wake up call

I've met lots of people all chancing their hand at something they think will earn them mega bucks, all talk and No substance

Tbh I think that asides from stricter skills tests, practical and theory being the best long term solution,
The only way of stopping it would be having compulsory licensing and third party inspection for certain grades of workers in the electrical trades but I guess this would get watered down when not enough people passed


To the OP
I've also heard that in Germany you are licensed to a certain grade and have to complete a business course before you can go self employed, therefore only the proven can tout their trade independently

If this is true it would be a good system to adopt.

 

[Rpa07]

I think those without experience, but qualifications, will not stand the test of time, yes they’ll do a few jobs and will be able to hide some inexperienced bodges but the stuff that can be seen won’t be good enough to get them recurring work and they’ll have to either try a different trade or go on the books with someone to gain experience.
I did two 22 week courses to get me to domestic installer then I went looking for experience and I got mentored by a very meticulous but lazy time served spark. 18 months of doing most of the work myself but gaining so much experience - he ended up owing me about 2 grand but I’d have paid him for what I got out of it.
I love this job and the people and the freedom and the forum has helped immensely.

 

[FatAlan]

Some good replies, and I agree with some of them But Some replies are answering the question wrong, If you have prior knowledge or a general grasp of things then that is fine.
My Main Question is: Should Someone who as only ever worked in a different field Ie Fast food outlet, office, window cleaner be allowed to sit a 5 week course and then immediately set up a company and go around charging the unsuspecting public for their services, then ( and it happens ) come on somewhere like here And ask how to do a job that they are charging some poor sod for.

Gut reaction is no but there are still too many viarables as already mentioned. If someone who has done an intensive 5 week course is able to correctly spec and safely install a piece of work then why not? There are plenty of so called time served professionals out there in all fields that do substandard jobs.

 

[SparkyChick]

My Main Question is: Should Someone who as only ever worked in a different field Ie Fast food outlet, office, window cleaner be allowed to sit a 5 week course and then immediately set up a company and go around charging the unsuspecting public for their services, then ( and it happens ) come on somewhere like here And ask how to do a job that they are charging some poor sod for.

And I guess this is one of my biggest gripes... wtf is wrong with people coming to an electricians forums and asking for advice ffs? Who'd have thought it eh???

Would you rather people ask for advice (and possibly back away from a job when - if - they realise they are out of their depth) or simply plow head long into projects they have zero clue about?

I know which I'd prefer, and I have benefited from the wealth of experience here, which is why I get so angry when people publicly crush those who are looking to learn and improve. The people who don't give a ---- are not going to come here and seek advice, they are just going to carry on regardless.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

And I guess this is one of my biggest gripes... wtf is wrong with people coming to an electricians forums and asking for advice ffs? Who'd have thought it eh???

Would you rather people ask for advice (and possibly back away from a job when - if - they realise they are out of their depth) or simply plow head long into projects they have zero clue about?

I know which I'd prefer, and I have benefited from the wealth of experience here, which is why I get so angry when people publicly crush those who are looking to learn and improve. The people who don't give a **** are not going to come here and seek advice, they are just going to carry on regardless.

I find, that if you explain what’s involved, you often get asked to do the work.

 

[Starjack]

And I guess this is one of my biggest gripes... wtf is wrong with people coming to an electricians forums and asking for advice ffs? Who'd have thought it eh???

Would you rather people ask for advice (and possibly back away from a job when - if - they realise they are out of their depth) or simply plow head long into projects they have zero clue about?

I know which I'd prefer, and I have benefited from the wealth of experience here, which is why I get so angry when people publicly crush those who are looking to learn and improve. The people who don't give a **** are not going to come here and seek advice, they are just going to carry on regardless.

And there it is!!!!!!
They shouldn't be meddling with stuff if they don't know what they are doing, so is this how the world is going.

1
Fast food worker , total numpty at the beginning of the month

2
Goes on a wham bam thank you mam course
3
Pay their cheque
4
Register as self employed Electrician
5
Goes on their first job, can't do it because they rapidly find out they're not an electrician and then goes on a forum and asks for a dot to dot guide on what to do.
6
The fast food worker/ sorry " electrician" then collects his/ her money and moves onto the next poor sod.
Tell me I'm wrong, and I'm not being rude but that is how it is.

 

[Squid]

And I guess this is one of my biggest gripes... wtf is wrong with people coming to an electricians forums and asking for advice ffs? Who'd have thought it eh???

Would you rather people ask for advice (and possibly back away from a job when - if - they realise they are out of their depth) or simply plow head long into projects they have zero clue about?

I know which I'd prefer, and I have benefited from the wealth of experience here, which is why I get so angry when people publicly crush those who are looking to learn and improve. The people who don't give a **** are not going to come here and seek advice, they are just going to carry on regardless.

Chill out babes ---

 

[Starjack]

Chill out babes ---

Thank you,
Thought I'd trod on her skirt for a minute.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

And there it is!!!!!!
They shouldn't be meddling with stuff if they don't know what they are doing, so is this how the world is going.

1
Fast food worker , total numpty at the beginning of the month

2
Goes on a wham bam thank you mam course
3
Pay their cheque
4
Register as self employed Electrician
5
Goes on their first job, can't do it because they rapidly find out they're not an electrician and then goes on a forum and asks for a dot to dot guide on what to do.
6
The fast food worker/ sorry " electrician" then collects his/ her money and moves onto the next poor sod.
Tell me I'm wrong, and I'm not being rude but that is how it is.

That’s one scenario.
Another is the Kitchen Fitter who does the 5 week course so they can extend circuits or even add new circuits when they are doing kitchens.

 

[Toneyz]

And there it is!!!!!!
They shouldn't be meddling with stuff if they don't know what they are doing, so is this how the world is going.

1
Fast food worker , total numpty at the beginning of the month

2
Goes on a wham bam thank you mam course
3
Pay their cheque
4
Register as self employed Electrician
5
Goes on their first job, can't do it because they rapidly find out they're not an electrician and then goes on a forum and asks for a dot to dot guide on what to do.
6
The fast food worker/ sorry " electrician" then collects his/ her money and moves onto the next poor sod.
Tell me I'm wrong, and I'm not being rude but that is how it is.

 

[Toneyz]

I don't like to admit it but crackerjack has posted something constructive and I agree with it. I must be feeling unwell.

 

[Rpa07]

That’s one scenario.
Another is the Kitchen Fitter who does the 5 week course so they can extend circuits or even add new circuits when they are doing kitchens.

. . . . and mostly make a right hash of it as well but it’s ok because the tiles will cover it all.

 

[Bait Account]

@Starjack there’s 2 sides to a coin bud. Yes some folks might just do the bare minimum to get started and blag their way but there are plenty of others who use the short courses to get into the industry. Many will then gain supervised practical experience and carry on with their studies before jumping into uncharted waters. Then again I’m sure most of us aren’t on as high a horse as you are.

 

[SparkyChick]

And there it is!!!!!!
They shouldn't be meddling with stuff if they don't know what they are doing, so is this how the world is going.

1
Fast food worker , total numpty at the beginning of the month

2
Goes on a wham bam thank you mam course
3
Pay their cheque
4
Register as self employed Electrician
5
Goes on their first job, can't do it because they rapidly find out they're not an electrician and then goes on a forum and asks for a dot to dot guide on what to do.
6
The fast food worker/ sorry " electrician" then collects his/ her money and moves onto the next poor sod.
Tell me I'm wrong, and I'm not being rude but that is how it is.

I'm not claiming this doesn't happen, only a fool would do so.

There is a huge difference between asking for step by step guides and coming here asking for advice, say having someone review a design for example. If someone asks for a step by step guide, it's against forum policy and they are likely to be advised to seek the services of a competent electrician, but when people see this kind of attitude on display it puts them off posting and that probably makes the difference between them learning and improving or not. Surely we want people to improve.

Do I think short coursers get enough practical experience on these coursers? No. Do I have an answer for that? Apart from taking people out on site with me, no I don't.

 

[Starjack]

I'm not claiming this doesn't happen, only a fool would do so.

There is a huge difference between asking for step by step guides and coming here asking for advice, say having someone review a design for example. If someone asks for a step by step guide, it's against forum policy and they are likely to be advised to seek the services of a competent electrician, but when people see this kind of attitude on display it puts them off posting and that probably makes the difference between them learning and improving or not. Surely we want people to improve.

Do I think short coursers get enough practical experience on these coursers? No. Do I have an answer for that? Apart from taking people out on site with me, no I don't.

You can move it into the arms if you like, yes that's right that lovely geezer Leesparky as given me free entry.

 

[ruston]

It is not really a subject that you cab generalise on . House bashing also requires other skills as well as electrical . Most people would be out of their depth even stripping a house to first fix it . It is a two handed sword . I have mixed feeling on it after having to put some of it right , yet I have followed on to some really tidy work.

 

[DPG]

You can move it into the arms if you like, yes that's right that lovely geezer Leesparky as given me free entry.

Only cos he wants the glasses collecting.

 

[SparkyChick]

You can move it into the arms if you like, yes that's right that lovely geezer Leesparky as given me free entry.

I'm not going to move it into The Arms.

And the reason is I want people who may be considering posting (but are worried about how others will respond - i.e. they don't want to be publicly humiliated or crushed for asking what to some may be a basic question) to see that there is at least one person here who will try and help them without berating them.

Don't think this means I won't tell someone they are out of their depth because if I think they are about to embark on a path that could lead to safety concerns, I will.