6a fan isolater or 5a fused connection unit for bathroom fans

[baazab]

hi avery1 i notice few new houses got 5a fused connection unit controlling bath room fans,my q how do they do it if you have 3core cable +earth (timer fan) i always used (3polefan isolater l1 l2 N).:dozey:

 

[monkeyelectric]

hi avery1 i notice few new houses got 5a fused connection unit controlling bath room fans,my q how do they do it if you have 3core cable +earth (timer fan) i always used (3polefan isolater l1 l2 N).:dozey:

You only need to fuse the permenant live, you still need a fan isolator though for maintenence

 

[telectrix]

or the FCU could feed the bathroom light as well, so both would be fused.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

hi avery1 i notice few new houses got 5a fused connection unit controlling bath room fans,my q how do they do it if you have 3core cable +earth (timer fan) i always used (3polefan isolater l1 l2 N).:dozey:

Unless something has changed, then you are doing it right, and what you have seen is wrong, unless it is not a timer fan.

Cheers………….Howard.

 

[monkeyelectric]

or the FCU could feed the bathroom light as well, so both would be fused.

Good call!

 

[MDJ]

Good call!

Yes he is quite good isn't he? LOL

 

[monkeyelectric]

Yes he is quite good isn't he? LOL

He's quick on his toes with replying to posts! :biggrin5:

 

[baazab]

i seen fcu next to the low voltage transformer ,that what made me think how does it work with 3core cable.i didnt see the fan isolater

 

[Badged01]

You only need to fuse the permenant live, you still need a fan isolator though for maintenence

To stir up some debate ....... dont you have to 'fuse' all the live conductors to the fan? (the way Tel suggests does this!) and unless the manuf says so, where is there a requirement to fit a specific fan isolator? (setting aside good practise!)

 

[JulianC]

Perhaps they've seen sense and aren't switching the fans on via the light switch. Nonsensical practice.

 

[Octopus]

So if you put a 3A fuse in the feed to the light, before the switch you can achieve DP isolation AND fusing down together. If you need RCD protection you simply use a RCDFCU. Simples

 

[baazab]

pls tell me if im wrong & this is how i do it if its bathroom timer fan or normal fan, 3core cable from the bathrom lighting circuit to 3pole fan isolater then from isolater to transformer out to the fan.

 

[telectrix]

it's good practice to fit a fan isolator when there is no window to let in natural light to see when working on the fan. i assume that this came about before torches were invented. hold on though. torches were invented before bathroom fans. i'm confused .com. and my name is NOT brian. nor is it the messiah.

 

[monkeyelectric]

To stir up some debate ....... dont you have to 'fuse' all the live conductors to the fan? (the way Tel suggests does this!) and unless the manuf says so, where is there a requirement to fit a specific fan isolator? (setting aside good practise!)

Ooh i love a mass debate! There is no requirement unless the manufacturer specifies it, i rarely fit an fcu, just the tp fan isolator will do in my eyes. The fcu would only be needed for the permenant live as that is what runs the fan motor, the switch live is just to trigger it if its a timer fan that is! If its not a timer fan then just an fcu would do the job as there would be no permenant live anyway!

 

[yellowvanman]

Is there any fans out there that DON'T specify 3A fuse protection?

 

[Octopus]

Ooh i love a mass debate! There is no requirement unless the manufacturer specifies it, i rarely fit an fcu, just the tp fan isolator will do in my eyes. The fcu would only be needed for the permenant live as that is what runs the fan motor, the switch live is just to trigger it if its a timer fan that is! If its not a timer fan then just an fcu would do the job as there would be no permenant live anyway!

Really - which fans do you fit?

 

[Badged01]

it's good practice to fit a fan isolator when there is no window to let in natural light to see when working on the fan.

That old cookie! So what do you do for 'light' when working on the light(s) in the bathroom ......

 

[MDJ]

That old cookie! So what do you do for 'light' when working on the light(s) in the bathroom ......

Head torch, you shouldn't work on lights when they are live :biggrin5:

 

[monkeyelectric]

Really - which fans do you fit?

Manrose how about you? They specify a 3a Dp fused spur before the light switch so like tel said the whole lot would be on the fcu

 

[Badged01]

Ooh i love a mass debate!

Careful with your innuendo! There could be delicate females, DIY'ers or young apprentices reading this thread ........ :wink5:

 

[Octopus]

Manrose how about you? They specify a 3a Dp fused spur before the light switch so like tel said the whole lot would be on the fcu

That nice company who's instructions state a DP isolator and 3A fuse requirement?

 

[monkeyelectric]

Careful with your innuendo! There could be delicate females, DIY'ers or young apprentices reading this thread ........ :wink5:

They gotta learn sometime! :biggrin5:

 

[monkeyelectric]

That nice company who's instructions state a DP isolator and 3A fuse requirement?

I don't get it! Is that a question or a statement?

 

[Octopus]

I don't get it! Is that a question or a statement?

A bit of both lol. Wish I'd written it a bit better now! Actually I've just read a set of Manrose instructions and it doesn't state before the light or anything sensible.

What I want is a fan which doesn't need a fuse!! Now that would be good.

 

[telectrix]

fitted a elv fan in shower room today. no mention of fusing in the manufacturers leaflet. i'll be back there friday and see if i can pick up the data, as also the fan was virtually silent. well impressed , especially as the builder supplied it.!!

 

[monkeyelectric]

A bit of both lol. Wish I'd written it a bit better now! Actually I've just read a set of Manrose instructions and it doesn't state before the light or anything sensible.

What I want is a fan which doesn't need a fuse!! Now that would be good.

That would be perfect! But i believe its asking too much of these manufacturers, i don't see the need for additional fusing just for a pigging bathroom fan! Have a look at these http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Manrose/BGCF100_200.pdf

 

[Octopus]

That would be perfect! But i believe its asking too much of these manufacturers, i don't see the need for additional fusing just for a pigging bathroom fan! Have a look at these http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Manrose/BGCF100_200.pdf

Except this asks for a 3A fuse and DP isolation!

 

[telectrix]

whole issue is quite pointless as a 6A MCB would trip while the 3A fuse was thinking about it.

 

[monkeyelectric]

Except this asks for a 3A fuse and DP isolation!

That's what i said earlier, it asks for 3A dp isolation and if you look at that poxy little diagram its installed before the light switch, not very clear though and i wouldn't arse about with that anyway when a tp isolator is a much better way to go

 

[Guest55]

Is there any fans out there that DON'T specify 3A fuse protection?

yes , at least 2.

greenwood for 1 , the other make escapes memory but is another well known brand

 

[MDJ]

yes , 2.

greenwood for 1 , the other make escapes me but is a well known brand

Vent Axia I believe

 

[JulianC]

yes , 2.

greenwood for 1 , the other make escapes me but is a well known brand

Nuaire's Slimaire is another. Sure there's more too.

 

[Guest55]

i was going to say xpelair but i think youre right mdj lol.

 

[Octopus]

yes , at least 2.

greenwood for 1 , the other make escapes memory but is another well known brand

State a 3A fuse required.

 

[RogertheBodger]

Careful with your innuendo! There could be delicate females, DIY'ers or young apprentices reading this thread ........ :wink5:

lol Had it been all one word you would have got more laughs out of that!

 

[monkeyelectric]

lol Had it been all one word you would have got more laughs out of that!

But it probably would have been blocked by the forums bad word detector!

 

[Geordie Spark]

That old cookie! So what do you do for 'light' when working on the light(s) in the bathroom ......

Set fire to the bog roll

 

[Geordie Spark]

Ooh i love a mass debate! There is no requirement unless the manufacturer specifies it, i rarely fit an fcu, just the tp fan isolator will do in my eyes. The fcu would only be needed for the permenant live as that is what runs the fan motor, the switch live is just to trigger it if its a timer fan that is! If its not a timer fan then just an fcu would do the job as there would be no permenant live anyway!

When I was (much) younger, my Mum said if I didn't stop doing that I would go blind. Dad said I would go deaf.

Here I am all these years later, wearing glasses and booked-in for a hearing test next week.

 

[D Skelton]

Ah it's nice to see some of the old wives tales, myths and general heresay regarding bathroom fans rearing their heads again. Here's one for all you lot, I fit Soler & Palau fans whose manufacturers instructions don't require any form of fusing down. I am fully entitled to feed my fan from a light switch without a single fuse or a TP isolator in line and my work in doing so would be completely and utterly acceptable.

"Gotta have a TP isolator for maintenence in the dark"... Hogwash!
"Gotta have local isolation"... Tripe!
"Gotta fuse it down to 3A"... Claptrap!

Keep peddling these myths boys, it does the industry so many favours you know!

 

[Hawkmoon]

He's quick on his toes with replying to posts! :biggrin5:

Agreed - he is extremely quick

I always have to think a post over a bit before submitting in case I've made some kind of howling schoolboy error - resulting in having to survive the inevitable onslaught of 'friendly' abuse and banter!!

lol

 

[Badged01]

Set fire to the bog roll

You cant, the extractor fans not working yet!!

 

[tidyboiler]

When I was (much) younger, my Mum said if I didn't stop doing that I would go blind. Dad said I would go deaf.

Here I am all these years later, wearing glasses and booked-in for a hearing test next week.

******!!! oops, filter's on. Good job I bought you some boxing gloves for hanukkah.............

 

[telectrix]

if you tried to light the bog roll after i'd had a dump, a visit to the burns unit at the local hozzie would follow.

 

[mhar]

live to supply side dp sfcu, supply side l to one pole of dp switch (wall or ceiling), load l to other pole of dp switch, fan perm live from either load side of sfcu or supply side of dp switch. Light still on when fan isolated, fan fused correctly, dp isolation of fan only achieved

 

[Hawkmoon]

Ah it's nice to see some of the old wives tales, myths and general heresay regarding bathroom fans rearing their heads again. Here's one for all you lot, I fit Soler & Palau fans whose manufacturers instructions don't require any form of fusing down. I am fully entitled to feed my fan from a light switch without a single fuse or a TP isolator in line and my work in doing so would be completely and utterly acceptable.

"Gotta have a TP isolator for maintenence in the dark"... Hogwash!
"Gotta have local isolation"... Tripe!
"Gotta fuse it down to 3A"... Claptrap!

Keep peddling these myths boys, it does the industry so many favours you know!

Sorry madam I can't install a loft light for you because it's far too dark up there for me to work :bucktooth:

 

[Des 56]

Its this weird practice of mixing control of ventilation with a person using a room, whether its dark or smelling or is just a quick visit

I have seen many of these threads and it bewilders me why anybody would think of controlling ventilation dependant on light use

Fit a DP switch with a fuse and control the fan via a independent pull cord and forget the weird practice

The 3 pole isolation would be a non issue

 

[applemac]

When are fan manufactures going to pop a fuse carrier into the fan?

 

[mhar]

I have seen many of these threads and it bewilders me why anybody would think of controlling ventilation dependant on light use

Part F building regs - for rooms with no windows states it must plus manufacturers instructions for fans with overrun

 

[Des 56]

Originally Posted by Des 56

I have seen many of these threads and it bewilders me why anybody would think of controlling ventilation dependant on light use



Part F building regs - for rooms with no windows states it must plus manufacturers instructions for fans with overrun

Ok its game on

I don't have enough of the Geek in me to study a mind numbing document such as Approved document F,but here we go


quoted from F1 table 1.5 Dwellings

Intermittent extract can be operated manually and/or automatically
For a room with no openable window (ie an internal room)the fan should have a 15 minute over run.In rooms with no natural light,the fan couldbe controlled by the operation of the main room light switch


Over to you sir,If I am correct,the apology can be accepted when you feel up to it

If I am wrong,you can have yours now

 

[Octopus]

quoted from F1 table 1.5 Dwellings

Intermittent extract can be operated manually and/or automatically
For a room with no openable window (ie an internal room)the fan should have a 15 minute over run. In rooms with no natural light,the fan couldbe controlled by the operation of the main room light switch


I'm not having a 15 minute over run on my ensuite!