Adding aditional lighting to switch

[dixie]

Hi, I'm trying to change the double light switch at the top of my stairs to a 3 way switch (for lighting in attic). I thought it would just be a case of adding another cable to lights and swapping the original wires from old switch to new switch.

On the old socket:

Switch one = Bathroom (light controls fan)
Switch two = Hall

All neutral wires are together in a small joining box

The new faceplate im trying to put on has standard l1 l2 x 3
but also has 3 extra inputs.

Sorry im getting myself really confused now. I have pictures if anybody needs them.

 

[onions1066]

What are the 3 extra connections? Upload the pics.

 

[dixie]

 

[onions1066]

Take a twin and earth to the loft light from switch. There are no extra connections just marked up differently. Commons are still commons. Connect up new switch leaving 3 switch empty. Now you have your new cable to loft light. Connect the brown into L1 and take a loop of cable from the second switch's common into switch 3 common to feed your loft light. The blue to the loft goes into the neutral connector block and obviously connect the earths together that is important. Hope that's helped a little bit.

 

[dixie]

thank you very much, yes that has helped alot.

 

[dixie]

Help: Adding aditional lighting to switch

Now i have ran into another problem. All switches working but when switch 2 is off, switch 3 doesn't work. Also i was wondering, due to the mass amount of wires and the sheer awkwardness of it. is it possible to have ie 4 brown wires into a connector box and have 1 brown wire coming from the other end.

ie, say l1 has 3 brown wires going into it, could i put they 3 wires into a joining box then have 1 brown wire coming from it so you only need to fiddle with 1 wire instead of 3. and the joining boxes could be hidden in the wall

 

[dixie]

anyone lol

 

[telectrix]

sounds like you've taken the feed to switch 3 from the wrong side of switch 2. and don't be so impatient. even us gods need to eat sometimes. LOL.:ciappa:

 

[dixie]

Ive put a wire from com 2 to com 3.

 

[telectrix]

but is com 2 the permanent L or is the feed to sw2 on L1? that's how it looks in your pic. but can't be sure from a pic.

 

[dixie]

l1 on switch 2 takes a feed from com1

 

[dixie]

also can i use connector boxes to free up space.

 

[dixie]

fixed it, i ran com 1 to com 3.

 

[telectrix]

nothing like a bit of trial and error. red to red, black to black, blue to bits. LOL.

 

[dixie]

is it possible to have ie 4 brown wires into a connector box and have 1 brown wire coming from the other end.

ie, say l1 has 3 brown wires going into it, could i put they 3 wires into a joining box then have 1 brown wire coming from it so you only need to fiddle with 1 wire instead of 3. and the joining boxes could be hidden in the wall

​

 

[bigbaddave]

I think a pullcord in the loft may have been easier. Feed to switch. Live connected to c and l1 to lights. Neutral connected through to light fitting.

 

[dixie]

thats the switch all connected properly now but is it possible to have ie 3 brown wires into a connector box and have 1 brown wire coming from the other end.

ie, say l1 has 3 brown wires going into it, could i put they 3 wires into a joining box then have 1 brown wire coming from it so you only need to fiddle with 1 wire instead of 3. and the joining boxes could be hidden in the wall

 

[Octopus]

thats the switch all connected properly now but is it possible to have ie 3 brown wires into a connector box and have 1 brown wire coming from the other end.

ie, say l1 has 3 brown wires going into it, could i put they 3 wires into a joining box then have 1 brown wire coming from it so you only need to fiddle with 1 wire instead of 3. and the joining boxes could be hidden in the wall

You'd still have to link the commons together so that's more wire!

 

[Adam W]

Just use a deeper backbox.

 

[dixie]

I have no space for a bigger backbox, the com wires arnt the problem, the backbox has 6 x twin&earth going into it.

1. Bathroom Light
2. Hall Light
3. Loft Light
4. Loft Ariel Socket
5. Bathroom fan
6. Mains wire

 

[worzol99]

Must be working in torchlight now! makes me laugh when posters on this forum usually shoot down a diyer!

 

[dixie]

pml yes torch in mouth

 

[Adam W]

I have no space for a bigger backbox, the com wires arnt the problem, the backbox has 6 x twin&earth going into it.

1. Bathroom Light
2. Hall Light
3. Loft Light
4. Loft Ariel Socket
5. Bathroom fan
6. Mains wire

That's a lot of wires.

 

[worzol99]

LOL good luck

 

[Octopus]

I have no space for a bigger backbox, the com wires arnt the problem, the backbox has 6 x twin&earth going into it.

1. Bathroom Light
2. Hall Light
3. Loft Light
4. Loft Ariel Socket
5. Bathroom fan
6. Mains wire

You chose to add an extra one! Amazing what DIYers do at Xmas.

Maybe you should get somebody in to do it for you.

 

[onions1066]

Your so close now, but your New Years resolution must be not to do DIY at Christmas . You sorted it yet?

 

[decolad69]

I think a pullcord in the loft may have been easier. Feed to switch. Live connected to c and l1 to lights. Neutral connected through to light fitting.

Yes, I would agree with you. The light is going to get left switched on in the loft as it's on a 3 gang plate with the loo and hall.

 

[dixie]

Thats its all sorted, All lights working and faceplate fitted.

 

[worzol99]

good job well done

 

[onions1066]

Good. Probably speak to you next Christmas when your adding some sockets :rolleyes4:

 

[Adam W]

Good. Probably speak to you next Christmas when your adding some sockets :rolleyes4:

Yeah extra sockets in the loft for the train set, spurred off the radial that was already there (the one for the TV booster run off the lighting circuit).

"Hi everyone I have a problem with my fuse box tripping. Every time I turn on the heater it trips everything out."

 

[dixie]

I have already done the sockets, took one spur from each bedroom, so i now have 3 double sockets up their. All done correctly, that was the easiest part. The way my loft is framed i could fit a full size room in their without altering anything. I do a lot of music production and thats where all my equipment is going once i have plastered everything and put new flooring down.

 

[Stroppy]

Yeah extra sockets in the loft for the train set, spurred off the radial that was already there (the one for the TV booster run off the lighting circuit)

Now I see the advantage of whoever-it-was's suggestion of putting the booster on a round pin plug/socket instead of an FCU.

 

[shocking_eg]

I have already done the sockets, took one spur from each bedroom, so i now have 3 double sockets up their. All done correctly, that was the easiest part. The way my loft is framed i could fit a full size room in their without altering anything. I do a lot of music production and thats where all my equipment is going once i have plastered everything and put new flooring down.

didnt you have to add extra supports if your using your loft as an extra room ?

 

[vjsmarwick]

Hope your first task is refit the grommet I have not had time to read all the posts because the wife is breathing down my neck but switch change should be easy after the grommet is refitted lol

 

[Adam W]

Now I see the advantage of whoever-it-was's suggestion of putting the booster on a round pin plug/socket instead of an FCU.

A few disadvantages being:

• You'll need to chop the factory fitted plug off the booster which introduces the question of invalidating the warranty.
• Someone can come along at a later date and spur off it and/or change it for a 13A socket.
• Lighting circuits are for lighting - an electrician might not be expecting a TV booster to be on the same circuit hidden away in the loft when he IRs the lighting circuit.

 

[shocking_eg]

Obviously it's not ideal to take anything other than lights of a lighting circuit... But the worse that will happen is the MCB would trip ?

 

[Adam W]

Obviously it's not ideal to take anything other than lights of a lighting circuit... But the worse that will happen is the MCB would trip ?

... Taking out all the lights with it so you can't see to get out of the loft, fall down the stairs/ladder and break your neck.
If the booster comes fitted with a 3A fuse that is what the manufacturer has deemed appropriate protection - chop that off and wire it into a 6A lighting circuit and you've got about twice the potential fault current.

 

[Stroppy]

A few disadvantages being:

• Someone can come along at a later date and spur off it and/or change it for a 13A socket.

I would have thought this would be an advantage of putting it on a round pin plug - a subsequent electrician is likely to see a round-pin and think "light circuit", whereas a 13A spur or socket would suggest a ring/radial power circuit. I don't think many sparks would try to spur off an existing round-pin socket.

 

[shocking_eg]

Didn't actully mean about the TV booster

I was regarding when people fit sockets in their lofts fed from a lighting circuit

 

[Octopus]

A few disadvantages being:

• You'll need to chop the factory fitted plug off the booster which introduces the question of invalidating the warranty.
• Someone can come along at a later date and spur off it and/or change it for a 13A socket.
• Lighting circuits are for lighting - an electrician might not be expecting a TV booster to be on the same circuit hidden away in the loft when he IRs the lighting circuit.

Yeah but a decent sparky doesn't go for 500v first do they?

 

[Stroppy]

No, we go for 1000v and listen for the bang

 

[shocking_eg]

True

Test between live conductors and earth only

And note down on cert as a limitation

Or do people seriously go round and disconnect all lights and dimmers off the circuit ? Lol

 

[decolad69]

... Taking out all the lights with it so you can't see to get out of the loft, fall down the stairs/ladder and break your neck.
If the booster comes fitted with a 3A fuse that is what the manufacturer has deemed appropriate protection - chop that off and wire it into a 6A lighting circuit and you've got about twice the potential fault current.

I would agree with you re the 3a fuse, and have a mate who's house was gutted by a fire which was caused by a faulty TV amp in the loft. If you increase the rating of the protective device by removing the plug and installing a 5a socket on a 6a mcb or possibly 10a? the insurers will look for someone to blame.

 

[Adam W]

I would have thought this would be an advantage of putting it on a round pin plug - a subsequent electrician is likely to see a round-pin and think "light circuit", whereas a 13A spur or socket would suggest a ring/radial power circuit. I don't think many sparks would try to spur off an existing round-pin socket.

Again the only protection would be via 6A 60898 rather than a 3A 1362 as recommended by the manufacturer.
Ideally a socket should come off the final circuit regardless of what it's initially intended for (with the exception of light sockets controlled by a light switch. I think too many people go around sticking everything on round pin plugs to avoid minor inconveniences - laminate flooring, wallpaper, couldn't be bothered... And the round pin plugs start coming out.

IMO you wouldn't do this on a new build so you shouldn't do it as an addition - if using round pin sockets becomes too commonplace I can see people starting to put them on new builds - "oh yeah we need a round pin socket on the upstairs lighting for the TV booster"; IMO round pin sockets should only ever be put next to 13A ones so there's no point trying to plug anything else in.

 

[Adam W]

Didn't actully mean about the TV booster

I was regarding when people fit sockets in their lofts fed from a lighting circuit

I don't think there is such a thing as a socket for one item of equipment - this seems to work until the vacuum cleaner needs to be plugged in somewhere convenient, then it's "needs must".

 

[Adam W]

Yeah but a decent sparky doesn't go for 500v first do they?

A decent one doesn't, no, but an 'indecent' one gets a low reading at 250v so tries it at 500v to see what they get then. Still a low reading and it goes up to 1000v. I've heard of someone even getting hold of one of those old wind-up IR testers to get the voltage higher still.

 

[Stroppy]

I don't think there is such a thing as a socket for one item of equipment

There sort-of is: an FCU. Then you can fuse it appropriately too.

 

[bigbaddave]

Yeah extra sockets in the loft for the train set, spurred off the radial that was already there (the one for the TV booster run off the lighting circuit).

"Hi everyone I have a problem with my fuse box tripping. Every time I turn on the heater it trips everything out."

My wife has bought me an electric shower for Christmas.. Can I take out the light and fit it to this?

 

[Adam W]

There sort-of is: an FCU. Then you can fuse it appropriately too.

If there is absolutely no way of extending the final circuit into the loft (which I doubt) I think that would be the better solution, although it still involves chopping the plug off.