Adding sockets to a radial circuit in different directions

[finlamit]

Hi.

I have a radial circuit supplying electricity to the garage (part of the house). It's on a 20amp breaker, uses 2.5mm cable. It currently only supplies a single socket. Before anyone asks, its 100% a radial circuit. 6 months ago I had an electrician install a new consumer unit, and the testing/certificate that followed states this.

There is a single socket on the circuit. Annoyingly, the socket is at the back of the garage and right in the middle of the wall.

What I would like to do is keep this socket. Then... come out of the socket on the left, and put a socket on the left wall, and out of the right and put a socket on the right wall. I cant continue the cable round in a single direction as the garage door and other things are is in the way. Coming off in both directions from this socket it the only option.

Would this be ok? An alternative I had was to come out of the the top of the socket into a junction box (30A), then the two cables come out of this... best described as a T junction.

In case anyone wondered, there will not be any high load appliances used. One will supply the chargers for my tool batteries, the other will be Christmas lights!

Thanks in advance.

F

 

[Aaron b]

There's no problem with connecting a circuit like that.

 

[finlamit]

There's no problem with connecting a circuit like that.

Thanks.

Another thing to add is that I am not a qualified electrician. Would I legal be allowed to do this myself. Would it be the same as spurring off a ring circuit (which I am allowed to do)?

F

 

[brianmoooore]

There is no legal reason to stop you doing this work yourself, as long as you are competent, but it still needs a minor works certificate to be completed, along with the testing to get the results to enter on that certificate.
Junction boxes are to be avoided if possible, and you should be able to connect a total of three sets of 2.5mm2 wires to a good quality 13A socket, especially a double.

 

[Aaron b]

As long as you are not in a zone in a bathroom or adding a whole new circuit you are alright in England. You can download part p of the building regs for free. You still need to comply with regulations regardless. You probably won't be able to double up the cores with three in one terminal and you need to make sure it's gripping them well.

 

[timhoward]

Let's not confuse the two questions of legally being able to do the work, and the requirement (or not) to notify the work.

Would I legal be allowed to do this myself. Would it be the same as spurring off a ring circuit (which I am allowed to do)?

“No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger, or where appropriate, injury, unless he/she possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such a degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.”
(Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (EAWR) – Regulation 16)

If you meet the bit in bold then it's legal for you to do the work.
As @brianmoooore said all electrical work should be tested and documented and if you're not providing a new circuit the Minor Works Certificate can be used instead of the more complex Electrical Installation Certificate.

The other factor mentioned by @Aaron b is notification; there is some work that the local authority building control people need to be told about, and as he said that is generally bath/shower-room work, a new circuit, or replacing a consumer unit. That clearly doesn't apply to this instance.

 

[buzzlightyear]

There is no legal reason to stop you doing this work yourself, as long as you are competent

It's OK saying that, but if he electcutes him self or somebody who picks the phone then.

 

[brianmoooore]

It's OK saying that, but if he electcutes him self or somebody who picks the phone then.

If he electrocutes himself, or anyone else, then he's clearly not competent.

 

[timhoward]

It's OK saying that, but if he electcutes him self or somebody who picks the phone then.

If he's dead, he won't have to prove he's competent....!

 

[buzzlightyear]

If he's dead, he won't have to prove he's competent....!

On his head stone it will say he tried.

 

[finlamit]

So basically what you are saying is, I can do the work... But need a minor works certificate... Which I need to get from a qualified electrician... Who probably will resent the fact I didn't ask them to do it in the first place..??

 

[brianmoooore]

Again, anyone can complete a minor works certificate as long as they are competent to do so. The regulations do not say how you are to demonstrate this competence, but you will still need several hundred pounds worth of calibrated test equipment to complete it.

 

[James]

Have you considered an extension lead?
Christmas’s lights are not likely to be in use all year round!!

 

[BiddeldyBwah]

If he's dead, he won't have to prove he's competent....!

Jesus man state of you lot in here, it's an extra socket ffs.

 

[timhoward]

Jesus man state of you lot in here, it's an extra socket ffs.

I was actually trying to gently say Buzz was over reacting, it obviously came over wrong.
The OP asked whether it was legal, we said yes, crack on. We also said it should have a MWC by rights.
I assumed the OP would read between the lines that there won't be a long (or short) line of people checking it actually gets a MWC....

 

[LastManOnline]

Junction boxes are to be avoided if possible,

Agree in principle. But in this case the JB will be in the garage so won't look awful and will be accessible. For an amateur I would imagine connecting three 2.5,s into a JB and looping a 2.5 out to the socket would be easier than connecting the three 2.5,s into the socket

 

[pc1966]

As above, if you are competent then adding sockets to this 20A radial is fine. However, you must have some means of testing the results. Spending the £500-1500 that an electrician would on a MFT is somewhat out of the question, but at the very least get something like this to check the socket is wired correctly and the earth loop impedance is at least sensibly low:

TIS Socket Tester With Loop & RCD Check

A pocket sized checker for indicating loop impedance, socket polarity and RCD 30mA are all ok. Indication is by LED's and buzzer. An ideal unit for initial "checking out" of a 13A socket and will advise if the circuit is ok, needs attention, or needs urgent attention. An ideal product for...

www.toolstation.com

I also would agree with @LastManOnline to avoid 3 leads in socket terminals, they should go but you need care that all 3 are fully engaged and gripped. Putting a junction box in the garage should be fine, if it were me I would use something like the 3-way or 5-way Wago 221 series terminals for the connections in something like a Wiska 407 box. You can also get glands like these for T&E cable for a good mechanical support:

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/british-general-plastic-cable-gland-kit-20mm/8797p

20mm Entry Gland for 2.5 & 4mm Flat T & E | Wiska (WKP20F254)

 

[LastManOnline]

Let's not confuse the two questions of legally being able to do the work, and the requirement (or not) to notify the work.


“No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger, or where appropriate, injury, unless he/she possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such a degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work.”
(Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (EAWR) – Regulation 16)

If you meet the bit in bold then it's legal for you to do the work.
As @brianmoooore said all electrical work should be tested and documented and if you're not providing a new circuit the Minor Works Certificate can be used instead of the more complex Electrical Installation Certificate.

A very informative thread for me this. Can I conclude that in the UK an unskilled person can theoretically buy a multimeter, a set of electricians tools etc and then rewire and certify a house?

 

[DPG]

A very informative thread for me this. Can I conclude that in the UK an unskilled person can theoretically buy a multimeter, a set of electricians tools etc and then rewire and certify a house?

No because they would not have the equipment (which would need to be an MFT, not a multimeter) or the ability to do the testing or complete the installation cert. Also a new consumer would need notifying to building control (admittedly a non-electrician can sometimes do this)

 

[timhoward]

I would like to slightly clarify a statement I made:

The OP asked whether it was legal, we said yes, crack on.

I did not intend to convey it is legal in all cases.
I intended to convey that it is legal subject to the persons knowledge and experience, as per my my earlier quote from the EAWR.
(My impression is that the OP has the ability to do this safely and competently)

A very informative thread for me this. Can I conclude that in the UK an unskilled person can theoretically buy a multimeter, a set of electricians tools etc and then rewire and certify a house?

A multi-meter won't be accurate enough in terms of resolution for continuity tests and won't be able to test earth loop impedance, insulation resistance, or time RCD activation/operation. As mentioned above the cost of such tools and knowledge to use them safely is a barrier to most people entertaining this.
Of course anyone can theoretically do anything, but the EAWR which is the statutory legal document does indicate knowledge and experience is required.

That's before you get onto the building regs requirements, as a new consumer unit and new circuits are notifiable works, which generally means membership of one of the competent person schemes and they have their own entry requirements which are getting harder not easier.
So it isn't as simple as you suggest.