Back up generator on domestic

[guest119]

Can't find it

Just put GENERATOR into the searchbox above and fill your boots.

Boydy

 

[growler]

I'm half way through a rewire and the customer just put it on me that he wants this genny set up, there was no mention of this in the build up to the job. I just don't know what to tell him as I don't feel comfortable doing this and the genny is pretty much like the one I use out on site.

 

[D Skelton]

I'll just wack in some 2.5 on an external socket for him to plug into and ride off on me horse.

External plug you mean, so that he can attach a portable socket on to it.

 

[PEG]

Would you care to expand on any of this?

How do you know what type of generator the OP's customer has?
Why do you say that 5.5KVA is too low for domestic backup?
Since the earthing is TT and is likely to already have adequate RCD earth fault protection, why should doing it properly cost the price of a month's cruise?

...Expand i will... Firstly,the OP has said it is 5.5 KVa geny,i am taking a guess it will not be suitable for ALL types of equipment likely to be connected to it,because he did not specify it would be,could be wrong there,but he has not given details. Secondly.he said "domestic backup",so how much,domestically speaking,will that power at its expected duty-cycle?Some lighting and a good kettle? Thirdly,because i know the cost of a suitable sized and rated back-up generator and the associated arrangement, that would cope with an average household,and also know the cost of a cruise,and,am able to compare two numerical figures accurately.....i did. Apologies for over-expansion.

 

[growler]

Could I maybe install a change over switch and an external plug and then it's down to the customer what he does after that ?

 

[HandySparks]

...Expand i will... Firstly,the OP has said it is 5.5 KVa geny,i am taking a guess it will not be suitable for ALL types of equipment likely to be connected to it,because he did not specify it would be,could be wrong there,but he has not given details. Secondly.he said "domestic backup",so how much,domestically speaking,will that power at its expected duty-cycle?Some lighting and a good kettle? Thirdly,because i know the cost of a suitable sized and rated back-up generator and the associated arrangement, that would cope with an average household,and also know the cost of a cruise,and,am able to compare two numerical figures accurately.....i did. Apologies for over-expansion.

OK, so you're just guessing about the type of generator.
If I were buying one of that size, I'd probably go for one of these:
Honda EU65is Petrol quiet Inverter Generator

Decent, reliable make, quiet, and an inverter output for stability.

For a normal domestic property, I recon that 5.5kVA would do most loads except an electric shower or hob, or multiple heating devices. ie, should be good for a kettle, plus lighting, central heating pump, fridge, freezer, PCs, TV, etc. Yes, you could go for bigger, but once you've covered the 'essentials' and the small stuff, I think there's little point in paying more.

As for the cost of installing, I assumed that the generator itself was already paid for, as the OP's customer has one (assuming that it is, in fact, suitable).

 

[HandySparks]

In fact, if you're really disciplined and have gas heating and a gas hob, or other non-electric cooking, I think you could 'make do' with not much more than 1kW.

It's a 'project' that I'm currently considering for my own use. I have one of the wireless electricity consumption meters on my desk, and most of the time it's reading under 1kW, with occasional peaks above that level when someone runs the kettle, washing machine, dishwasher, tumble dryer or oven.

 

[PEG]

Fair enough,but the problem occurs in separating the circuits the geny can cope with the ones it cannot...this is not a problem for a genuine "back-up generator",as it is capable of backing-up the the primary supply. Folk generally require the same functionality from their homes when using generator back-up,they accept the cost,supervising and upkeep as a trade off to keep warm,clean and entertained... Otherwise,any geny and lead would give some benefit (as does the downstairs ring only method) There are other factors with back-up generation for a domestic supply,that require consideration,but are often overlooked initially. Siting,is one.Is the unit to be positioned where it will be run? How long will it be running? Fueling store and filling.Security,noise,neighbours,remote starting? A lot of my customers imagined a quick pull start,jealous onlookers and sit down for Sunday dinner....not happening. I don't know if you are old enough to remember to power cuts around 1980,my mates mum had a dance studio,and had always kept this old Tecumseh 4KVa geny fueled and ready in the garage for the lights only...We had started and played with it dozens of times,so,door open,fueled and running,all lights blazing...3 hours later,lights off,get outside,bloke opposite said 2 lads in a transit van took it,and he was glad coz he had a headache! :joker:

 

[Geordie Spark]

Fair enough,but the problem occurs in separating the circuits the geny can cope with the ones it cannot...this is not a problem for a genuine "back-up generator",as it is capable of backing-up the the primary supply. Folk generally require the same functionality from their homes when using generator back-up,they accept the cost,supervising and upkeep as a trade off to keep warm,clean and entertained... Otherwise,any geny and lead would give some benefit (as does the downstairs ring only method) There are other factors with back-up generation for a domestic supply,that require consideration,but are often overlooked initially. Siting,is one.Is the unit to be positioned where it will be run? How long will it be running? Fueling store and filling.Security,noise,neighbours,remote starting? A lot of my customers imagined a quick pull start,jealous onlookers and sit down for Sunday dinner....not happening. I don't know if you are old enough to remember to power cuts around 1980,my mates mum had a dance studio,and had always kept this old Tecumseh 4KVa geny fueled and ready in the garage for the lights only...We had started and played with it dozens of times,so,door open,fueled and running,all lights blazing...3 hours later,lights off,get outside,bloke opposite said 2 lads in a transit van took it,and he was glad coz he had a headache! :joker:

You're just a wet-behind-the-ears bairn!

I remember the real power cuts of 1973 when the miners kicked Ted Heath's arse out of office!

and that was why Thatcher wrecked the mining industry - and everything else - ten years later. It's called revenge folks - pure, mindless, spiteful revenge!

 

[Robotstar5]

I remember the real power cuts of 1973 when the miners kicked Ted Heath's arse out of office!

My old man wasn't too happy, he'd not long paid to have electric storage heaters fitted. Due to doing a lot of camping, at least we had lighting and cooking stove.

 

[HandySparks]

Fair enough,but the problem occurs in separating the circuits the geny can cope with the ones it cannot...this is not a problem for a genuine "back-up generator",as it is capable of backing-up the the primary supply. Folk generally require the same functionality from their homes when using generator back-up,they accept the cost,supervising and upkeep as a trade off to keep warm,clean and entertained... Otherwise,any geny and lead would give some benefit (as does the downstairs ring only method) There are other factors with back-up generation for a domestic supply,that require consideration,but are often overlooked initially. Siting,is one.Is the unit to be positioned where it will be run? How long will it be running? Fueling store and filling.Security,noise,neighbours,remote starting? A lot of my customers imagined a quick pull start,jealous onlookers and sit down for Sunday dinner....not happening. I don't know if you are old enough to remember to power cuts around 1980,my mates mum had a dance studio,and had always kept this old Tecumseh 4KVa geny fueled and ready in the garage for the lights only...We had started and played with it dozens of times,so,door open,fueled and running,all lights blazing...3 hours later,lights off,get outside,bloke opposite said 2 lads in a transit van took it,and he was glad coz he had a headache! :joker:

Certainly, connecting a small generator to the house supply without segregating the final circuits into 'mains only' and 'mains or generator' requires the homeowner to have some understanding of the loads involved and the discipline to only load the generator within its rating. Many householders won't want to, or be able to, do this.

You're quite right to point out some of the other issues with regard to location, noise, fuel, security, etc.

 

[growler]

My question is as the outlets on the genny are 16amp does this mean I connect the genny via a 16amp external plug and a length of 2.5 into a changeover switch ?

 

[guest119]

Isnt this just going round in circles?
Did you search GENERATOR as suggested to see many previous threads?

Boydy

 

[growler]

Nothing relevant to my question

 

[Geordie Spark]

My old man wasn't too happy, he'd not long paid to have electric storage heaters fitted. Due to doing a lot of camping, at least we had lighting and cooking stove.

My boss wasn't to happy either. It was the time of the three day week which meant that for two days of the week area by area had no leccy cos it was switched off by the grid.

Our company was a small Precision Engineering company and the gaffer wasn't happy about the prospect of us losing 2 days production per week.

He brightened up when he found out that we shared a feed with the local hospital and because of this the power would not be turned off but we would be trusted to honour the three day week and not operate for two days per week.

Boss went out and bought a little second hand genny which he put outside at the front of the building in full view of anyone passing. From this genny, he fed a cable through the letter box of the front door and fixed a lampholder to it with a 60W bulb (lamp whatever!) in it. This illuminated the reception area with a dim flickering light which was visible to passers by who could also see & hear the chugging genny.

Meanwhile, behind the scenes backstage and out of sight, centre lathes were turning, Milling machines were happily milling and grinders were grinding ... We were all fully employed and the gaffer was a happy little man.

 

[Knobhead]

I remember those days Geordie.
I spent many an (un)happy shift in our intake sub watching the maximum demand during the three day week fiasco. I can’t remember what our allocation was, it wasn’t a great deal considering the kit we were trying to run.
Trying to run coal fired kilns on natural draft was an environmental disaster but we had to keep them alight somehow. You could taste the sulphur in the air.
Pity the company had decided we didn’t need our own power station a few years before.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I remember those days Geordie.
I spent many an (un)happy shift in our intake sub watching the maximum demand during the three day week fiasco. I can’t remember what our allocation was, it wasn’t a great deal considering the kit we were trying to run.
Trying to run coal fired kilns on natural draft was an environmental disaster but we had to keep them alight somehow. You could taste the sulphur in the air.
Pity the company had decided we didn’t need our own power station a few years before.

Aye, these bairns today don't know the half of it!

 

[Engineer54]

What are you saying, ...that a 3 pole C/O switch is needed for a single phase supply eg for L-N-E ??

Still waiting for a reply to this post i made a couple of days or so ago??

 

[HandySparks]

Still waiting for a reply to this post i made a couple of days or so ago??

Yes, I'd like to get this issue clear. Obviously, the question doesn't apply with TT, but what about TN-S and TN-C-S supplies?

 

[Knobhead]

I think you'll find a removeable links are recommended.

Before anyone says anything the meter conections are wrong. It's one of my stock drawing being as how this crops up all the time.