basic and fault protection

[Ryan Kavanagh]

hi guys,

whats the difference between basic and fault protection.

am i right in guessing fault protection is the means of earth were as basic protection is means of instulation of wires, ect

 

[malcolmsanford]

Reg 414.2 ................... onwards and then you will come onto additional protection

 

[Ryan Kavanagh]

hi,

thanks for your reply, i just checked out. At least i was on the right track.

so equipotential bonding would also come under fault protection then wouldnt it.

 

[D Skelton]

hi guys,

whats the difference between basic and fault protection.

am i right in guessing fault protection is the means of earth were as basic protection is means of instulation of wires, ect

Yeah, you're pretty much there.

Basic protection is insulation, barriers, enclosures, placing out of reach and SELV/FELV/PELV.

Fault protection is use of RCD's, earthing etc...

RCD's are also classified as additional protection just to confuse you a little

 

[samh909]

Hi I have a question:

The initial inspection is being carried out at the distribution board (CCU) in the intake room of a property.

List three items providing fault protection within this area of the installation.

PS. How do I start my own thread/ post? I am new and there is no option for me to say I can start a new post haha. It's confusing for me. Thanks

 

[telectrix]

Hi I have a question:

The initial inspection is being carried out at the distribution board (CCU) in the intake room of a property.

List three items providing fault protection within this area of the installation. have a go yourself first

PS. How do I start my own thread/ post? I am new and there is no option for me to say I can start a new post haha. It's confusing for me. got to top of page and click on "forum". then select an appropriate forum for your thread. then click "post new thread", enter a title and make your post.Thanks

my comments in red.

 

[samh909]

Thanks

 

[JasonL]

Hi, I have no experience of electrical installation apart from the forty pages I've read in the book I'm studying. A rubbish book too, which is confusing on this subject. I tried reading 414.2 and ended up spending half hour looking up the various terms I've never come across before. Can someone please explain the difference between basic and fault as if I'm the idiot I'm starting feel like??

 

[Marvo]

This post pretty much sums it up.

 

[JasonL]

Don't worry! Found a pdf in another thread that explains it all lovely. This one; http://electrical.------.org/wiring-...k.cfm?type=pdf

 

[davesparks]

Hi, I have no experience of electrical installation apart from the forty pages I've read in the book I'm studying. A rubbish book too, which is confusing on this subject. I tried reading 414.2 and ended up spending half hour looking up the various terms I've never come across before. Can someone please explain the difference between basic and fault as if I'm the idiot I'm starting feel like??

May I ask why you are studying this book?

 

[JasonL]

So I can get qualified as an electrician, it's a course with The Training Specialists

 

[davesparks]

Ok, the best bet is to ask your tutor in college and your mentor. This is what doing your apprenticeship is all about, having your mentor and the college tutors to ask questions of and learn from.

 

[JasonL]

Ok, the best bet is to ask your tutor in college and your mentor. This is what doing your apprenticeship is all about, having your mentor and the college tutors to ask questions of and learn from.

My tutors are only available til 1 on weekends, and the time I have to study is limited as I already have a pet care business which is pretty much 24/7. I completely agree with you, my tutors have been helpful so far, this forum seems like it could be really useful out of hours though. I've found answers to questions I had in few old threads already. It's not an apprenticeship, I'm working full time at my own business which means I have to study at 5am and weekends, also means I have no practical sense of what I'm studying. Not moaning though, I'll get there!

 

[davesparks]

Sorry, my mistake.
You said you were studying to become an electrician and the only way to become an electrician is to complete an apprenticeship. So you can see why I made the assumption.

 

[mayfair]

Dont start. The guy has asked a question its been answered so leave it at that

 

[davesparks]

No, this is not a public service to provide answers to electrical questions, it is a forum for open and honest discussion of questions, facts, opinions etc.

The poor guy has likely been conned by a training provider into thinking he will become an electrician by doing a short course, it is only fair to help him see through the con!

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Sorry, my mistake.
You said you were studying to become an electrician and the only way to become an electrician is to complete an apprenticeship. So you can see why I made the assumption.

Oh you mean like Faraday, Tesla, Swan and Lincoln who all undertook apprenticeships and weren't self taught much…thank god for apprenticeships its the best way to get cheap labour apart from slavery .

 

[davesparks]

To the best of my knowledge none of the gentleman you mention were electricians, the trade did not exist then.
However an apprenticeship was the only way to qualify as a tradesman in their day.

Apprenticeships are not a means of gaining cheap labour but the only way to learn a trade properly.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

I beg to differ, all the gentlemen were electricians, its just been dumbed down ever since. Apprenticeships are cheap labour, it isnt the "being in an apprenticeship and working for peanuts" that teaches you the basic theory, it is education which does that. You can learn hands on without being in an apprenticeship quite easily.

 

[davesparks]

They were not, the trade did not exist then!

And I am sure you will find they served their time under other experienced people. Faraday worked as an assistant initially and no doubt so did the others.

Apprenticeships are not cheap labour! Anyone who treats an apprentice as cheap labour should be shot as far as I am concerned. An apprentice is employed to learn a trade under the supervision of an experienced tradesman.

What is an apprenticeship if it is not education?

 

[Zebra Stripe]

I can feel your passion man, and Im not being disrespectful, well not intentionally. However, I agree the gentlemen mentioned may well have learnt from others but, and this is the thing, they were mavericks and much of what they did was going against the grain of the science status quo, they were mostly self taught in the science of electricity cos there wasnt a science of electricity,as it were, when they were experimenting.
There are many ways to learn Dave and many ways to become qualified, but they dont all end at the slave labour camp of apprenticeship, just cos thats what you did.

 

[davesparks]

Yes they were, and if the op or anyone else is seeking to further scientific knowledge and understanding then they could follow this path.

I did not do a slave labour apprenticeship, I did an electricians apprenticeship!

What other way is there to become qualified as an electrician. Try looking up the word 'electrician' in Stubbs.

 

[Meggerman]

Im a JIB Approved Electrician and I never completed an apprenticeship.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Yes they were, and if the op or anyone else is seeking to further scientific knowledge and understanding then they could follow this path.

I did not do a slave labour apprenticeship, I did an electricians apprenticeship!

What other way is there to become qualified as an electrician. Try looking up the word 'electrician' in Stubbs.

Ok I apologise, as I seem to have upset you. Perhaps slave labour is a bit ott, can I say low wage or below national minimum, which to be frank is a disgrace, but lets leave that there

If there is only one way to learn Dave, or only one path for everybody to follow, then Im afraid we as humans must accept the inevitable, that progression is no longer possible and admit to defeat and the inevitable exstinction. However, whether you think apprenticeships and blinkered vision will help pull us through the dark hours leading up to this apocalypse at least we'll be happy in the knowledge we did it your way
Dave you have a beautiful mind, we all do, its powerfull and can learn at all levels, why oh why impede it to just apprenticeships?

 

[davesparks]

The human race is a lost cause anyway and the best thing for this planet would be its total extinction.

However we are not talking about the whole of the human race here, or I certainly wasn't.
I was talking specifically of the trade of the electrician. The apprenticeship method, be it formal or informal is the only method I know if successfully training for this trade. What other method is there?

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Hey Dave maybe eugenics would solve the problem…only kidding… the science of biology teaches us that once a species reaches its maximum carrying capacity well nature takes over.
you say apprenticeships are the only way YOU know of so maybe there are orher ways that perhaps you dont know of yet …eg look at the post a few places above

 

[davesparks]

Unfortunately modern science and political correctness fights natures efforts to fix the problem, diseases are cured, survival of the fittest is overridden.

So enlighten us as to what these other methods of qualifying as an electrician are?

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Oh come on Dave, its hardly enlightening. By the way you may require a little bit of enlightening yourself if your deluded enough to believe that man has concurred natural disasters and disease… keep taking your antibiotics Dave and the biotics keep a moving on

Ok I'll enlighten you into something but, I dont think you'll be pleased and you will probably tale offence. I mean this with no disrespect but the majority of electrical work is not rocket science but is paint by numbers… now I know people will attack and defend the trade they love, but its true, MOST DOMESTIC is easy and requires little skill or knowledge… ok Dave you have what you require enlightenment.

 

[davesparks]

We have not beaten natural disasters and disease, but we fight disease quite well. And we certainly fly in the face of evolution and natural selection. Survival of the fittest has been replaced by survival of the retarded and the unfit.
How did you know I am forced to live on antibiotics to keep my lungs working?

I know that neat all of what I do as an electrician is very simple.

You have not answered the question though, what are the other methods of qualifying as an electrician.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Hey evolution and natural selection are natural apparatus that occur over a geological time scale, unfortunately for us we haven't been around long enough to even dent its irrevocable slow grind to the inevitable concussion… women without heads hahahah!
Sorry, wasn't aware of your lung condition

so my alternative to apprenticeships is …learn the trade without an apprenticeship

 

[davesparks]

But how? It's all well and good saying learn the trade without an apprenticeship, but how do you go about it? How do you learn a trade without working with experienced tradesmen?

 

[davesparks]

Hey evolution and natural selection are natural apparatus that occur over a geological time scale, unfortunately for us we haven't been around long enough to even dent its irrevocable slow grind to the inevitable concussion… women without heads hahahah!
Sorry, wasn't aware of your lung condition

so my alternative to apprenticeships is …learn the trade without an apprenticeship

But natural selection relies on the survival of the fittest, that is to say those who are unfit or anyone viewed as being inferior to the species not being allowed to continue.
Our modern world seems to thrive on promoting the unfit as being equal to those who are.

 

[JasonL]

Whoa! This thread has lost it's way a bit! Is me asking a question to help me get qualified counter to the purpose of this site? That's not the impression I got from the threads I've read so far. I know you can't get the full nvq3 without doing some work as an electrician, but that doesn't come into it until much later. If you can't find work yourself the college has on-going projects they can put you in to. I guess it becomes an apprenticeship later, that's for pedants to worry about. I don't think I've been conned, I just have to work a bit harder on theory at the beginning because I'm not an electricians mate. I prefer to do it this way 'cause I have bills to pay. Thanks for your concern.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Sorry I was being flippant.
Do you want me to spell it out and risk the wrath of all on here?
Oh ok then… well you go online book yourself into a course like 2360, spend time learning at college and home while working else where, come on here or other forums and dont get frightened off by morons, read, work, make mistakes and learn… work with other sparks and other trades, its easy… next thing you know you've been doing it for years

 

[Zebra Stripe]

But natural selection relies on the survival of the fittest, that is to say those who are unfit or anyone viewed as being inferior to the species not being allowed to continue.
Our modern world seems to thrive on promoting the unfit as being equal to those who are.

Dave look up geological time scale, then look up how long humanity have been around

 

[GMES]

Who is right Zebra stripe or Dave, well there's only one way to find out fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhtttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Hey Dave, pop over to Hawkmoons TNCS thread and we can have some proper electrician talk, apprentice trained to self taught so to speak, but in a learning way

 

[davesparks]

Sorry I was being flippant.
Do you want me to spell it out and risk the wrath of all on here?
Oh ok then… well you go online book yourself into a course like 2360, spend time learning at college and home while working else where, come on here or other forums and dont get frightened off by morons, read, work, make mistakes and learn… work with other sparks and other trades, its easy… next thing you know you've been doing it for years

So an informal apprenticeship then? Spending time working with qualified tradesmen is what an apprenticeship is! Either formally where you come out with a certificate at the end of it, or informally where you just get the important stuff and not the certificate.

Now back to the question how do you qualify as an electrician without an apprenticeship.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Gmes, thats out of order, Dave would kill me with a swift blow to my lower epitathium.

 

[davesparks]

Dave look up geological time scale, then look up how long humanity have been around

On a geological timescale all living things have been in existence for no more than a blink of an eye.

Natural selection works on all timescales, it is a gradual process.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

So an informal apprenticeship then? Spending time working with qualified tradesmen is what an apprenticeship is! Either formally where you come out with a certificate at the end of it, or informally where you just get the important stuff and not the certificate.

Now back to the question how do you qualify as an electrician without an apprenticeship.

Dave lighten up, the world is full of so called policemen policing things they've got no clue or agreement with. Why join them. Lets banter about physics or electricery .… by the way you need to hurry cos my wine supply is dwindling

 

[GMES]

Gmes, thats out of order, Dave would kill me with a swift blow to my lower epitathium.

That's what i was hoping for lol

 

[davesparks]

Sorry can't do that, electricity kills people, not something I am going to ever lighten up about.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Thank you, then I know who to keep close gmes

 

[GMES]

Thank you, then I know who to keep close gmes

Zebra lighten up bit of fun

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Sorry can't do that, electricity kills people, not something I am going to ever lighten up about.

Fair point Dave, how many have you killed just out of interest

 

[davesparks]

Gmes, thats out of order, Dave would kill me with a swift blow to my lower epitathium.

That's what i was hoping for lol

Sorry to disappoint but I don't do biology, his epitathium may as well be his left sock for all I know!

I did my best to get out of biology at school, my teachers also did their best to get me out of biology at school. But sadly to do Physics and Chemistry you also had to do the non-science!

 

[Zebra Stripe]

Zebra lighten up bit of fun

I know

 

[davesparks]

Fair point Dave, how many have you killed just out of interest

Well when I was an apprentice there was this earthworm once

I have yet to kill any people, have been called to a house where a dad had put his 2 year old daughter in hospital by carrying out some dangerous DIY and her receiving an electric shock from it. But hey, domestic is easy isn't it, any fool can do it after reading some books and taking advice from a forum!