board change prerequisite

[ultinator]

Hi all,

Basically, someone in my family needs a new board ideally and I was wondering, as im not registered with nic, nappit etc am I in a position to change this board and sign it without having to pay a crap load of money to labc. or would to change it and test it but not sign it be a definitive no-no?

Would be doing it as a favour to them as they are 7months pregant and havent got a load of money to spend

 

[simpson93]

it is iligal if you dont notify labc or get a part p sparks to do it. however if you have done the job correctly/ tested properly its the same outcome. ask your friends if they mind.
i myself would comply with part p.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

In order to comply with Part P of the Buildings Regulations, the work has to be notified.
This can be done by pre-notifying to the LABC, or by employing an Electrician registered with a Self Certification/Competent Persons scheme.
There is an option to notify after the event, but this is usually more expensive

 

[ultinator]

ok thanks, this is as I thought. If I undertook the works and tested it, what is the limitation to the timeframe of someone else coming to sign it off, as in could they come a week after it was done?

 

[Guitarist]

ok thanks, this is as I thought. If I undertook the works and tested it, what is the limitation to the timeframe of someone else coming to sign it off, as in could they come a week after it was done?

Nobody else is allowed to sign it off as it is your work. If you are going to break the law though, it's up to you how long you wait before asking someone else to notify and say that they did it.
For us part P guys, we must notify within 30 days of completing a job.

 

[Amp David]

7 months pregant now and no money, then come to sell house in a few years and its pulled, then the buyer want a EICR done and will cost more, so in the long run they will probably end up paying it.

If my missus is ever 7 month preggers, I might send here into the local VW dealer and see if she can get a cheap transporter for me

 

[kingeri]

Bottom line is that you need to inform BC, one way or another. If you really want to 'do them a favour' then this is the only way, otherwise you ain't doing anyone any favours, including yourself.

 

[Guitarist]

Ultinator, you have asked several questions regarding CU changes and required qualifications recently. Can I suggest that you get yourself a copy of the Electricians guide to the building regs, along with the BGB and the on-site guide, if you don't already have them. It's great to be able to ask for help on the forum, but you seem to be someone carrying out electrical work, without really being sure what you are legally permitted to do. Telling us that it's a family member who's 7 months pregnant won't change the advice we are able to give you. All the best.

 

[oldtimer]

Or they could go down to a big DIY shed and buy a new fuseboard because the notification police wont be around anytime soon plus if they sell up in 10 years the buyer or BC is not going to complain that there is a safer fuseboard fitted ie RCD protection.

Or maybe fuseboards have dates on them so that the notification police can then spend thousands prosecuting you as they have nothing better to do.

So am I being cynical or is it a nightmare that I am going to wake up from

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I'll notify you when it's time to wake up.

 

[trev]

Or maybe fuseboards have dates on them so that the notification police can then spend thousands prosecuting you as they have nothing better to do.

An approximate manufacturing date (or even an exact one) would be traceable from the serial number on the CU but can you honestly see the authorities using that as a stick to beat someone with? The have neither the time, money or inclination to.

 

[oldtimer]

An approximate manufacturing date (or even an exact one) would be traceable from the serial number on the CU but can you honestly see the authorities using that as a stick to beat someone with? The have neither the time, money or inclination to.

Trev are you saying Part P is not workable ? better not tell the Schemies as their livelyhood depends on giving the impression that it does work maybe thats why they are going to try to relaunch it as the have told the commons committee that it is ok and it just needs more promotion within the the media in other words spin.

So here is a scenario for you a guy who is 60 gets a new CU fitted and dies 18 years later his family sell the house but the Notification police swing into action saying wait this man broke the law he never told us so we are going to prosecute his estate as a lesson to everyone not to mess with us or will it be quitely ignored because the Schemie thing is not enforceable by law mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[trev]

As we all know, Part P is enforceable but it rarely if ever is.
Technically the scenario you gave should result in a prosecution of the guy's estate but once again, can you see that happening?

 

[Richard Burns]

So here is a scenario for you a guy who is 60 gets a new CU fitted and dies 18 years later his family sell the house but the Notification police swing into action saying wait this man broke the law he never told us so we are going to prosecute his estate as a lesson to everyone not to mess with us or will it be quitely ignored because the Schemie thing is not enforceable by law

Wouldn't work, 12 months after fitting you can no longer prosecute under the building regs, so all null and void!

 

[oldtimer]

Wouldn't work, 12 months after fitting you can no longer prosecute under the building regs, so all null and void!

So if the Notification Police kick down the door 6 months after you have changed it all you need is a label on the board saying installation date 18 months previously .

Yet again the Schemies want electricians to play cricket as it were so to keep them in a job and money for a system that is in all but name a self regulation system ie we are doing away with HMRC and you will now be your own tax collector

 

[Richard Burns]

So if the Notification Police kick down the door 6 months after you have changed it all you need is a label on the board saying installation date 18 months previously .

I am generalising a bit too much. after 12 months they can no longer ask for the work to be removed or modified on the lack of planning application/self certification side but they can still respond in certain ways if the work is dangerous, I think!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

To my mind, we can only offer advice on how work can be conducted in a manner that 'legally' complies with all the relevant Regulations.
If someone wants to act illegally, that's their choice.

 

[midgetman]

if you have the knowledge and skill and its improving the safety then its up to you. The only ever come back is if someone got killed injured from install. It ant going to come back on a house sale. You just have to tick box has any changes been made in. last five years. At end of day it ant that hard that is why so many people can get in on it in like 5 Weeks. you try doing that being a chippy. You wouldn't last 5min.

Cornish small man.

 

[Guitarist]

To my mind, we can only offer advice on how work can be conducted in a manner that 'legally' complies with all the relevant Regulations.
If someone wants to act illegally, that's their choice.

Exactly my sentiments. We can only advise on a public forum in ways which comply with the law as it stands.

 

[Guitarist]

if you have the knowledge and skill and its improving the safety then its up to you. The only ever come back is if someone got killed injured from install. It ant going to come back on a house sale. You just have to tick box has any changes been made in. last five years. At end of day it ant that hard that is why so many people can get in on it in like 5 Weeks. you try doing that being a chippy. You wouldn't last 5min.

Cornish small man.

Sorry mate, are you saying that being an electrician isn't hard, or simply the ticking a box part?

 

[midgetman]

Being an electrician is ha rd. Being a chippy is ha rd. Ticking a box is easy. thinking you is electrician in 5
Weeks is easy
Sun is getting to me, about time too.summer is here
Cornish small man.

 

[Guitarist]

Being an electrician is ha rd. Being a chippy is ha rd. Ticking a box is easy. thinking you is electrician in 5
Weeks is easy
Sun is getting to me, about time too.summer is here
Cornish small man.

Totally agree. My apprenticeship, just like any trade of old, was 4 years long, and it was after this time that you really started to learn the trade properly. A 5 week training course is to give you an idea of the basics, it is NOT an apprenticeship, regardless of the views of some politicians.

 

[Guest55]

Nobody else is allowed to sign it off as it is your work.

and yet a QS can sign off work done by other sparks from the same company without even going near the job ??
you should change your name to drummer as you keep banging on with the same statements.
;-D

 

[trev]

A QS can sign work off because he works for the organisation which has carried out the work. If I were a member of CPS I would be allowed to sign off my work and no one else's.
If I had people working for me however, then I can sign off their work as it is assumed that I am supervising them

 

[SKY]

It seems that the only people they try to prosecute is the people who use a scheme providers logo when not registered.

I would love to see more part P prosecutions but I cannot see it happening in the scheme of things.
The problem is that many sparks have to pay for the part p do not have a level playing field against to rouge sparks or the DIYer.

Maybe a control on the purchasing of consumer units so they cannot be sold without scheme ID - ok it would not stop a black market but it will add an element of control I guess

 

[oldtimer]

Why not get rid of Schemes and Part P and have licenced electricians who register with the JIB their qualifications and Grade card plus they have to also register their PL and PI insurance as well after that the law and the consumer protection act is in place ie get taken to court for say negligence or bad workmanship then you get your licence revoked this would stop the DIYers and the dodgy sparks and at the same time get the schemies to concentrate on training. If a customer wanted to see you were ligit they could log on to an JIB electricians directory

Or is this too simple ?

 

[Guest55]

A QS can sign work off because he works for the organisation which has carried out the work. If I were a member of CPS I would be allowed to sign off my work and no one else's.
If I had people working for me however, then I can sign off their work as it is assumed that I am supervising them

in other words its ok to sign off others work so long as you pay extra scheme fees for the privilige.

;-)

 

[trev]

Maybe a control on the purchasing of consumer units so they cannot be sold without scheme ID - ok it would not stop a black market but it will add an element of control I guess

Cracking idea mate, while we're on we'll ban the sale of text books, car parts, copper pipe, timber, tiles, plaster, bricks etc etc etc to stop all DIY.
Can't see that happening, can you?

 

[SKY]

Cracking idea mate, while we're on we'll ban the sale of text books, car parts, copper pipe, timber, tiles, plaster, bricks etc etc etc to stop all DIY.
Can't see that happening, can you?

They control the sale of certain gas hoses and boiler parts for sale only to a Gas Safe Engineer.
Gas you can smell - water you can feel, but electricity can kill suddenly if the right circumstances arise as well as cause fire.
I just feel having a control measure in place adds an obstacle.

 

[oldtimer]

Well one thing is for sure you either legislate and enforce Part P and stop sell CUs in sheds but you cannot have both

 

[trev]

Sky, I'm sorry mate but you're fooling yourself. I can walk into Plumb Center and as long as I can pay I can walk out with a boiler, a stack of pipe and a few radiators any time I like with no questions asked. There are ads in the Sunday papers selling everything you need to put a heating system in, once again no questions asked.
I could go and buy a load of text books to educate my children without the need for any of those school things and I can do a mechanic out of a job by working on my vehicle, granted the vehicle would be required by law to have an annual inspection but that requirement still doesn't stop a lot of people disregarding it.
The same goes with any of the other things I mentioned.
These are the very same things that you are complaining about with regard to our trade, while I agree with you to a point can you honestly see the huge businesses involved in all things DIY allowing the government to cut off massive slices of their revenues?

 

[Submains]

Well, luckily we've always got these chaps to fall back on if things go wrong.

 

[Guitarist]

and yet a QS can sign off work done by other sparks from the same company without even going near the job ??
you should change your name to drummer as you keep banging on with the same statements.
;-D

And you manage to keep banging on with the same old insults....
Personally, I don't agree with the QS system at all, as we all know it is abused. What I am stating is the legal position for the OP. If they choose to ignore that, then that's their call...

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The three part EIC has been around for a number of years.
There are many Installations where hundreds of electricians have taken part in the installation work.
To expect each electrician to sign off their own bit of work is ridiculous.

 

[ultinator]

Ok, now I understand the predicament that is presented. Also I am aware that with regard to the 'legalities' involved it's a no-brainer. Yet it seems to me, that yes whilst I have gone through a short course I am not one to overlook issues that are presented. I am currently working with an experienced electrician who would be happy to help me out and do what needs to be done, yet this would cost money. I was just curious as to whether the qualifications and experiences I have picked up so far would be able to get put to use for a good cause.
However I see that regardless of the technicalities of the work to be undertaken, the legalities overall this. All I was inquiring was could I help make their home safer without having to charge them an arm and a leg.
Basically what this thread has said is yes I could do this and make their home a safer place, but without notifying it I would be held liable given a certain set of circumstances presented themselves.

Also note that after looking at their house, it would appear that someone has put an archway in and gone through a cable with a nail/screw to secure the plasterers mesh which has made this section live, it also appears the earth has been broken thereby making a metal light switch to also become live as I found when switching the light. So a 17th ed board is not top of the priority list anymore.

Thanks for all you kind words anyway guys (and girls if there are any but that seems unlikely)