Bonding clamp for steelwork

[dg2908]

I need to bond an installation in a sectional building. The structure is made from several I-Beam arches joined by timber purlins so I need to bond each arch. I can't find these clamps mentioned much online, are they just called "I beam bonding clamps" or do I need to ask for something else?

There is one separate piece of steel in the building that supports the side of a gate - this is steel box section - how would people normally bond box section without drilling it?

 

[benji]

have a look in the FURZE catalogue

 

[trev]

If you're really stuck you could drill holes and use nuts and bolts

 

[Bobster]

If you're really stuck you could drill holes and use nuts and bolts

Bad idea, you altering the structural integrity. He would be better welding a stud to it.

 

[DPG]

I'm sure one small hole for a nut and bolt won't bring the building down Daz

 

[trev]

That's why I said if he's really stuck.

 

[Bobster]

I'm sure one small hole for a nut and bolt won't bring the building down Daz

Your almost certainly correct. Could you prove it though?

 

[cobrauk]

Normally the steel has a flange already fitted to take other steels etc remove one the bolts and use crimp log with the correct size hole in it or a banjo to give your self a tag to bolt to will get over the issue at a push.
Or like Benji said get a Furse clamp check this out http://www.keison.co.uk/products/furse/FixingsBondsClamps.pdf

 

[Darkwood]

Bad idea, you altering the structural integrity. He would be better welding a stud to it.

This is not a bad idea in the scope of things, I often drill, tap structural steel for numerous reasons and when we are talking 6mm maybe 8mm holes there is neglegible effects to the structural integrity ..... when you start popping out a 100mm hole then yes this is when you need a structural assessment report. Dont get the mindset of the H&S regs that have been fashioned from heresay and have no foundation.

 

[telectrix]

or a croc clip.:devil:

 

[Bobster]

This is not a bad idea in the scope of things, I often drill, tap structural steel for numerous reasons and when we are talking 6mm maybe 8mm holes there is neglegible effects to the structural integrity ..... when you start popping out a 100mm hole then yes this is when you need a structural assessment report. Dont get the mindset of the H&S regs that have been fashioned from heresay and have no foundation.

I'm talking from personal experience.

I have seen structural steel split from 6mm holes before. Fine this building was put under abnormal vibration. The building the OP is working in will probably not be. You could say this makes my point invalid, I have never personally done it myself since.

 

[Farmelectrics]

Ok points taken use one of the original bolts then

 

[Knobhead]

Do you know what stresses there are in the beam? The most likely answer is “no”. So how do you know it’s safe to drill the beam?

Weld a stud to it.

DW had you been seen drilling a beam on any of our works you would have been up the road.

 

[dingledong]

Would you need to bond them

 

[Darkwood]

Do you know what stresses there are in the beam? The most likely answer is “no”. So how do you know it’s safe to drill the beam?

Weld a stud to it.

DW had you been seen drilling a beam on any of our works you would have been up the road.

Drill and tap M6 is absolutely acceptable as long as you use common sense... dont drill at the edges etc, I've had this out before and won my case but depends whose calling the shots, clearly on your site a zero tolerance exists for any form of drilling of structural and I'd have to respect that and yes then alternatives would be the method as it goes without saying.

As Rob mentioned cracks arose from a drilled steel in his own experience and TBH if cracks develop after drilling an M6 then you have a hell of a lot more to worry about with the structural design of that building and the safety of the occupants as any vibration that can cause that will also be acting on any unwelded joints and the foundations it sits in.

Last report we had drafted from the Engineers for drilling of steel in a particular building gave us a safe area to drill and max size, in following these guidelines and a few others like distance apart etc we were allowed to continue as it posed very little effect on the structural integrity of the steel. Note I don't give and sizes here because its situe' applicable and varies but lets just say it was a standard upright and H form steel and we were told we had no worries with 6mm bolts in most set-ups while following the basic guidelines.

If I remember what they said it was you should only drill the web of the I beam and only within the centre third of the width leaving the outer thirds well alone, if you follow this then it will have no detriment to the structural integrity of the beam. if the hole is sizable or strays into the outer third on either side then a structural assessment should be made. The Irony here is wood is 10times weaker than steel and if we were so red-taped with H&S with wood as we are with steel then we would be requiring a structural Engineers evaluation and permision everytime we drill a wooden joist in a typical house.

 

[benji]

somebody must have designed the building structure ask them

 

[Richard Burns]

Perhaps try searching for glazing bar hold fast, they should do what you want on structural steel I beams.

 

[Bobster]

http://www-public.tnb.com/eel/docs/furse/Total_Solution_TSC-0912_Earth_Bonds_Clamps.pdf


Page 10

 

[nickblake]

Does the steel need bonding if the main posts are sunk into the ground then its may not need bonding

 

[Bobster]

If they are sunk into a concrete foundation they almost definitely need bonding.

 

[Knobhead]

.

If I remember what they said it was you should only drill the web of the I beam and only within the centre third of the width leaving the outer thirds well alone, if you follow this then it will have no detriment to the structural integrity of the beam. if the hole is sizable or strays into the outer third on either side then a structural assessment should be made. The Irony here is wood is 10times weaker than steel and if we were so red-taped with H&S with wood as we are with steel then we would be requiring a structural Engineers evaluation and permision everytime we drill a wooden joist in a typical house.

Why didn’t state that proviso in the first place.

You stated you regularly drilled RSJ’s and no one should worry about it.

Unless there is torsional or transverse stress the centre of the web is reasonably safe.

 

[Marvo]

We have drilled holes in beams before but depending on their thickness it's not easy unless you have a mag-mount drill. It would be advisable to get the go ahead from the structural engineer on site if there is one. We also have a portable spot welder in the workshop that can spot weld up to a 10mm stud onto a plate or beam, if there were multiple studs required this would be the quicker option.

 

[Darkwood]

Why didn’t state that proviso in the first place.

You stated you regularly drilled RSJ’s and no one should worry about it.

Unless there is torsional or transverse stress the centre of the web is reasonably safe.

Yes maybe would have been wise tbh it may have helped but reacted to the blanket ban on attitude some hold where in fact its not the case .... point noted Tony

 

[Knobhead]

I did qualify my post by saying reasonably safe.

I still wouldn’t drill a beam, I would much rather weld a stud on.

 

[Engineer54]

Huh, the times i've gone to our Project Structural Engineers to get permission to drill steel I and H beams etc, NEVER been refused yet!! In fact most of them just laugh at you when you ask to drill a 14mm hole in steelwork, whether it's for a nut and bolt or a tapped bolt connection.

 

[davesparks]

I did qualify my post by saying reasonably safe.

I still wouldn’t drill a beam, I would much rather weld a stud on.

Tony you have missed out on the joys of the modern building site!
I have to get a hot works permit to use a soldering iron, what chance is there of being allowed to weld anything!

 

[Bobster]

I'm going to comment tomorrow whilst I'm not drunk.

 

[Knobhead]

Tony you have missed out on the joys of the modern building site!
I have to get a hot works permit to use a soldering iron, what chance is there of being allowed to weld anything!

I’d rather go through the rigmarole of getting a permit than drill a beam. Added to which while I’m sorting a permit out I’m doing nothing else, I still got paid.

Normally a 12mm stud would be welded near a cable run at various points in the building during construction.

 

[shanky887614]

Tony you have missed out on the joys of the modern building site!
I have to get a hot works permit to use a soldering iron, what chance is there of being allowed to weld anything!

get a plumber to weld it for you XD

easy because they will have a permit.

 

[telectrix]

a plumber hasn' t got the brains to refit a BS951 after altering pipework. how's he going to cope with a welder?

 

[Darkwood]

Regarding the welding of structural as I recall you need to be fully competent in welding to structural work as a poor weld or even an incorrectly position weld can weaken the metal ... it also applies when cutting off unused sections with the old acetylene set-up ... if the metal heats up too much it can do alot of damage to its integrity.
Its sometimes the better option to drill but has others have pointed out - if in doubt get a Structural Engineer in.

 

[Knobhead]

The joys of demarcation, I would have to get one of the welders to do the job.

 

[GMES]

Darkwood step away from the Drill

 

[ipf]

I drilled and tapped an 8mm hole in the steelwork of an industrial warehouse unit a few years ago.

The building was built in the 1940's as a munitions factory. Seeing as it was built to stand up to the Dorniers, Heinkels and Junkers it didn't worry me a great deal, to be truthful.

 

[Knobhead]

Darkwood step away from the Drill

View attachment 26072

That’s perfectly safe Glenn, sat on a bench it’s doing nothing.

 

[GMES]

That’s perfectly safe Glenn, sat on a bench it’s doing nothing.

Sorry Dw my bad carry on mate!!

 

[Darkwood]

LOL ... joking aside if any 'I' steels are under so much stress you can't pop a <10mm hole in the centre third of the web then you really want to be getting out of the building, older builds are massively over compensated for their structural integrity but the new architech flamboyant designs that are cost cutting at every corner that you should think twice about.

Oh and those sweat shops that are built on a shoestring and always keep falling down because they add extra floors without assessment.

 

[Knobhead]

Which is all well and good until the next person comes along and just pops another 10mm hole through.
It is safer to forbid the practice.

One of the joys of working for multinationals is if I needed a structural engineer I only had to make a phone call.

 

[jeremy]

Stud Welder Hire, all your equipment needs, one company | A-Plant... All your equipment needs, one company
Try one of these. Not difficult to use, though not the cheapest bit of kit to hire!

 

[Knobhead]

A bit on the expensive side for a few studs but a nice idea.

As I said I’d get one of the welders to attach 12mm bolts to the inside of the web where it’s out of harms way. These bolts would be positioned on the stanchions where there was to be cable ladders attached.