Brick wall lights - SWA cable connections

[oscar21]

Why are you titting around with glands, just treat the SWA as flex and terminate it as you would, if the SWA cable is in the wall cavity then it doesn't need the SWA protection anyway and it will still be armoured, just not earthed. The piece coming from the house or wherever can still be glanded I presume so that will satisfy the buried cable regulation.

When we wire brick lights, we just put in copex first and pull the flexthrough as we are doing the brick lights, it doesn't need any more than that.

 

[Neptune]

Why are you titting around with glands, just treat the SWA as flex and terminate it as you would, if the SWA cable is in the wall cavity then it doesn't need the SWA protection anyway and it will still be armoured, just not earthed. The piece coming from the house or wherever can still be glanded I presume so that will satisfy the buried cable regulation.

When we wire brick lights, we just put in copex first and pull the flexthrough as we are doing the brick lights, it doesn't need any more than that.

Now that is something I thought but dared not mention! From a practical point of view this would work and I can unsheath the cores, cut away the metal lining and slip straight into the light but thought that wasn't allowed? Do SWA cables not always have to be glanded? Also, will your approach risk the cores being damaged by the metal strands?

The house end is glanded and earthed.

Thanks for your support.

 

[oscar21]

I don't see a problem with it myself, maybe if you want to be super spark and do everything strictly by the book then maybe it should be terminated properly, but from a safety perspective, it will be absolutely fine, how is the flex terminated in these fittings, is it a pinching/stuffing gland and is there an in and out. In the past I've drilled a 20mm hole in these to add an extra stuffing gland when its only come with one.

 

[Neptune]

I don't see a problem with it myself, maybe if you want to be super spark and do everything strictly by the book then maybe it should be terminated properly, but from a safety perspective, it will be absolutely fine, how is the flex terminated in these fittings, is it a pinching/stuffing gland and is there an in and out. In the past I've drilled a 20mm hole in these to add an extra stuffing gland when its only come with one.

Here are pics from the back. It has a single entry point. It's got a rubber grommet.
Your suggested approach will mean that I cut back the outer, inner sheaths and metal strands (as deep as I can into the plastic housing). I can then push the two sets of L, N through this grommet and connect into the light. Perhaps I should put the two CPC's into a wago to maintain continuity?

 

[westward10]

What is on the other side of the wall.

Here are pics from the back. It has a single entry point. It's got a rubber grommet.
Your suggested approach will mean that I cut back the outer, inner sheaths and metal strands (as deep as I can into the plastic housing). I can then push the two sets of L, N through this grommet and connect into the light. Perhaps I should put the two CPC's into a wago to maintain continuity?

That sounds like a total bodge I'm afraid to say. Personally I think you are in a no win situation unless you can enlarge the hole or terminate the cables on the other side of the wall.

 

[Neptune]

terminate the cables on the other side of the wall.

The public footpath is on the other side of the wall.

 

[oscar21]

Here are pics from the back. It has a single entry point. It's got a rubber grommet.
Your suggested approach will mean that I cut back the outer, inner sheaths and metal strands (as deep as I can into the plastic housing). I can then push the two sets of L, N through this grommet and connect into the light. Perhaps I should put the two CPC's into a wago to maintain continuity?

Not quite if you cut the armoured bit back quite far you are left with the inner bit which is just like flex, although the sheath is a bit on the thin side, I was suggesting fit two stuffing glands into the light somewhere and clamp these onto where you cut the armoured strands so they are just inside the gland. Even if it was wired in flex I wouldn't trust that grommet to keep the water out, especially with two cables in it.

there must be room for a couple of small stuffing glands on that fitting somewhere, The last bit of 1.5 SWA I used was as thin as a piece of flex anyway.

 

[nicebutdim]

Is there a reason why some space could't be made above or below the light? This question has been asked more than once, but I don't see any meaningful response.

10 min per light with an SDS and cables could be made off properly, then a bit of Tuff sheath or HO7 brought through the rear in a single stuffing gland.

It would be as easy to do this right as mess about with less than ideal 'solutions'.

 

[DPG]

Why are you titting around with glands, just treat the SWA as flex and terminate it as you would, if the SWA cable is in the wall cavity then it doesn't need the SWA protection anyway and it will still be armoured, just not earthed. The piece coming from the house or wherever can still be glanded I presume so that will satisfy the buried cable regulation.

When we wire brick lights, we just put in copex first and pull the flexthrough as we are doing the brick lights, it doesn't need any more than that.

The armour must be earthed.

 

[littlespark]

Metal conduit “Y” box?

Two swa glands into one side… stuffing gland and flex into other…. Jointed in the box.

Lid on, drop into pillar…. Or is pillar not hollow?

 

[westward10]

Metal conduit “Y” box?

Two swa glands into one side… stuffing gland and flex into other…. Jointed in the box.

Lid on, drop into pillar…. Or is pillar not hollow?

I've a feeling @nicebutdim is chomping at the bit with his SDS to make the holes large enough

 

[oscar21]

The armour must be earthed.

There is no "must" about it, the regs are not a legal document, and what do you think will happen if it isn't earthed, the cable is buried in a brick wall, its not like it will get dug through with a spade like when its under a lawn. you could use flex in flexible conduit if you so wish which doesn't even have any armour yet if you use SWA which is essentialy just flex with steel armour round it then you have to earth the armour? It makes no sense.

Yes I know it probably says somewhere in the regs that whenever you use SWA it needs to be earthed, I'm not saying you are wrong but like I've said previously some people want to go to great lengths just to work religiously by the book and would even knock the wall down and start again just to accomplish this but there are others out there that work perfectly safely but a lot more practically.

 

[nicebutdim]

I've a feeling @nicebutdim is chomping at the bit with his SDS to make the holes large enough

I'm half thinking about booking flights, before this runs to a fifth page.

 

[DPG]

There is no "must" about it, the regs are not a legal document, and what do you think will happen if it isn't earthed, the cable is buried in a brick wall, its not like it will get dug through with a spade like when its under a lawn. you could use flex in flexible conduit if you so wish which doesn't even have any armour yet if you use SWA which is essentialy just flex with steel armour round it then you have to earth the armour? It makes no sense.

Yes I know it probably says somewhere in the regs that whenever you use SWA it needs to be earthed, I'm not saying you are wrong but like I've said previously some people want to go to great lengths just to work religiously by the book and would even knock the wall down and start again just to accomplish this but there are others out there that work perfectly safely but a lot more practically.

No decent electrician would leave the SWA armour unearthed. It's nothing to do with being a slave to the regs.

 

[littlespark]

Unearthed swa in the pillar will be fine, but what about between pillars?
In the ground…. Where someone could be forking around with, well, a fork…..
Or a spade.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I'm half thinking about booking flights, before this runs to a fifth page.

This topic has been running for a week elsewhere, they've been giving the OP the same answers for a while now. Terminating an armoured cable - https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/terminating-an-armoured-cable.612924/

Its another case of
to fail to plan means you plan to fail

 

[nicebutdim]

Unearthed swa in the pillar will be fine, but what about between pillars?
In the ground…. Where someone could be forking around with, well, a fork…..
Or a spade.

We read many posts about wiring regulations not being a statutory document, but perhaps we should view them as a convenient guide for the majority of us who can not possibly conceive of every eventuality.

 

[nicebutdim]

This topic has been running for a week elsewhere, they've been giving the OP the same answers for a while now. Terminating an armoured cable - https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/terminating-an-armoured-cable.612924/

Its another case of
to fail to plan means you plan to fail

Dear God.

It seems as though this is all to avoid digging the boxes back out which, given the 5mm of available space, is going to have to be done no matter what solution is decided on.

 

[loz2754]

SWA isn't just flex with steel armour and an outer sheath, as has been suggested. The stuff that covers the basic insulated cores is not to be considered a sheath, and in many cables it's just what is referred to as bedding. This bedding is often fragile and crumbles as you try to remove it. As such, it would not be ideal to try and use a stuffing gland around it to provide water ingress protection.
And the armour must be earthed, as already strenuously noted.

 

[Neptune]

Dear God.

It seems as though this is all to avoid digging the boxes back out which, given the 5mm of available space, is going to have to be done no matter what solution is decided on.

I am pivoting back to the idea of surface mounted lights and a Y-conduit with BC glands sitting in the current plastic housing. No digging or finishing required.