Campaign for an electrician's licence scheme...Please Read...

[blackiel]

12 week course...4 grand..as long as youve got basic english...well done new citizen..youre a SPARKS...sides hanging out yer back pocket whilst on yer way down the Cafe...You should have to work as a mate,with comprehensive proof,after completing these courses,for at least two years,without a doubt,dont care how clever you are,over 25 years since i qualified and im still learning everyday,its too complex a job to just brush off,like plastering,painting etc,its always updating,new discoveries,i know sparks,good ones,older than me that still get bewildered by things that have happened,a book can only help youre learning,life and experience can only teach you how to write the book!!!

 

[cantabrian9]

SPOT ON (if yer were a joiner YOU HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD) I am so pleased i am almost out of the GAME it used to be a interesting profession always something new cropping up

 

[Voltimax]

I think some of you here need to look deeper into the scheme providers and their practices. I was a Napit NTA council member and you would be shocked at what goes on. The sooner the current scheme providers are out of the picture the better. Work it out. Napit alone have 6500 members who each pay about £400 a year, thats 2.6 million pounds a year! Imagine what the NICEIC are raking in. None of them care if they have sub standard members, just so long as the public don't find out. I have seen a letter from trading standards to the NICEIC demanding them to kick out a member because his work was so poor. They took no notice, thats the power they have.

 

[DarrenB]

I completely agree with the introduction of an electricians licence.The problem that we now have,though,is that government has created the revenue raising part-p scheme.Quite rightly,there are an awful many people out there who have paid their monies,done short courses etc,and are now legally trading in the domestic electrical enviroment.To turn around now and tell them they no longer can trade would cause real anger amongst these peoples.It's a ridiculous situation created by government.
I'm a big believer in qualifications/exams.Yes,we all know of someone who was good on theory but less able in the manual stuff.But thats what a full electricians course finds out.You have to do full on theory,with challenging written exams at the end to challenge your know how of the latest edition of BS7671.Then theres the AM2,which checks your ability to do the manual side of the electricians job.
Someone who passes both these disciplines can rightly call themselves an electrician.Failure to pass either one of these disciplines and,im sorry to say,you shouldn't have the right to call yourself an electrician.
There is a system in place,and has been for many years......its called city & guilds qualifications.There are records available,i'm sure,that could tell anyone who wants to know who is qualified,and for what they are qualified.That should be the base point for a person wishing to call themselves an electrician.
For anyone to say that gaining a full city & guilds electrical qualification means little is,frankly,naive.

Darren

 

[RexT]

Hi Guys,

I was told that the NICEIC have changed their name recently, does anyone know if this is the case and why it is?

Thanks,

Rex

 

[andyb]

Hi Guys,

I was told that the NICEIC have changed their name recently, does anyone know if this is the case and why it is?

Thanks,

Rex

They changed the group name to Ascertiva (I don't know why)

But the Niceic is still the same with the same name.

 

[RexT]

Hi Andy,

Thanks, didnt realise it was the group thing. Just wondered as when the name changes normally there are other changes, like the ownership or conditions etc.

Best wishes

Rex

 

[andyemms]

I agree something needs to be done. When I started to re-train as an electrician 3 years ago I had no knowledge of the industry and find it rather annoying and disturbing that people out there are doing what I do, without doing the training I have done! There needs to be a strict licencing scheme and a card issued, we also need some sort of legislation preventing the sale of electrical components to unlicenced persons. You can't change a consumer unit if you cant buy one!

 

[m25maintenance]

yea stop selling electrical goods to the public and ill sell on the black market,lol

 

[cantabrian9]

yeh ,im back!! i still think some form of licencing scheme could work BUT AT NO COST TO US LOT!!but even if such a system got going there would still be the back-door boys around i cant see the goverment or the other so called bodies (jib,niceic (is that one correct?) and others?) really bothering if a person has,nt the right ticket (like i have wrote in the past with my jib ticket (put it away it may embarrass some-one)just one more small point, i have just finished a job (shopfitting)the man in charge blew 2 sparks??? out, 8 days before the job ended cos they were a liability!!me and the other spark had to sort the s---e they had left, but like CONFUCIUS quoted (MANY HANDS MAKE LIGHT? WORK) ALSO got pulled up cos i didn,t have a ecs ticket!!

 

[High Tower]

I am in favour in principle I think this should be a elitist trade because of the skill and knowledge required to be competent I think that we should be in the same place as gas fitters with their register. The only thing I object to is the notion of a licence only available to "time served" sparks. I made the wrong choices at 16 and devoted my adolescent years to being a chef, and make no mistakes I have been employed in some of the finest Michelin star restaurants but it is not what I
Want to do and I have always wished I had been a spark so I work 60hrs a week at work and then spend one of my rest days at college re- training and the other day trying to do some work to build my competence. So I would hope that I would be eligible.

 

[Phil]

I am in favour in principle I think this should be a elitist trade because of the skill and knowledge required to be competent I think that we should be in the same place as gas fitters with their register. The only thing I object to is the notion of a licence only available to "time served" sparks. I made the wrong choices at 16 and devoted my adolescent years to being a chef, and make no mistakes I have been employed in some of the finest Michelin star restaurants but it is not what I
Want to do and I have always wished I had been a spark so I work 60hrs a week at work and then spend one of my rest days at college re- training and the other day trying to do some work to build my competence. So I would hope that I would be eligible.

not alone there, I too made rubbish career choices at 16 and like you a worked some un savoury hours two nights at college and the rest of my spare time with my head in a book and grabbing every bit of experience i could because no one seemed to want a post 19 electrician on their books. i wish i had have done it at 16 but hind sight is a great thing. but so is working hard to obtain your goal good on you for sticking with it as it for me was not an easy ride but well worth every minute and the pride i felt when i could say i was an electrician as sad as it sounds made me grin

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Got to remember you can also do a 4 week domestic gas installers course as I basically retrained from the electro-mech field to domestic electrician in 4 weeks too. But I feel I wave a wealth of experiance behind me, but do not hold many of the quals banded about on this thread.

Quals mean nothing if you cant put them into practice, and not just under exam conditions on pretty rigs. I have come across many shocking (pardon the pun) installs be so called "time served" sparks under the banner of Part P schemes. At the end of the day, I take pride in my work, understand the regs and work to them no matter what. Word of mouth gets me 90% of my work on recomendation and have no probs with any of my installs being inspected at random intervals throughout the year (prob a good idea)

I watch with interest...............

 

[Phil]

too true graham i know a few people who have no knowledge of electrics but could pass probably even the 91 if they were given a book for a couple of months. that really does not make them competent and thats the key word for an electrician for my opinion you need not only the tech side but also the practical experience that only on the job gives. I have seen good and bad and both with and without quals etc

 

[ricardo123]

Just found this thread really good.

Haven't read all the threads but here are my thoughts.

Most dangerous works I have seen are from kitchen fitters, plumbers and diy'ers. Most sparks works are generally acceptable. I don't think other trades should be allowed to do a sparkies work and I think only electricians should be allowed to buy electrical materials from a wholesalers, etc.

I have just had a look at the Licencing web site but isn't this what the JIB should be for. I mean how many things do we need, the IEE, HSE, TRUSTMARK, ELECSA, ECA, NICEIC, NAPIT, PARTP, JIB, LABC, c'mon Mr Cameron, this one's ripe for some streamlining.

 

[maddfridge]

hi everyone

the whole lot should be under the JIB simple no one else no niceic eca etc simple jib should be like gas safe!

the trade bodies then could represent the electricians

Part P should be scrapped period and all the two week electricians should be tested under the elctrotechnical assessment scheme

Diy stores should be stopped from selling sockets etc for diy use

ah a song comes to mind if i ruled the world everyday would be last day of pat testing lol

 

[m25maintenance]

wat a load of kak. it will never happen, this is england. nobody checking until sum poor sole dies.iv called 20 people in the london area advertising as sparks and i said i need a spark but will need 2 c papers b4 job starts, only 2 of them called back, typical advert reads. plumber electrician handyman in other words unqualified idiot

 

[LukeD]

In my opinion you can have new schemes, licenses, cards etc every year if you so wish. None of them will ever mean a single thing until they are POLICED, and reports of dodgy/un-licensed work are followed up and PUNISHED.

Bang on ! THis is the only way.

 

[Big n Daft]

Just found this thread really good.

Haven't read all the threads but here are my thoughts.

Most dangerous works I have seen are from kitchen fitters, plumbers and diy'ers. Most sparks works are generally acceptable. I don't think other trades should be allowed to do a sparkies work and I think only electricians should be allowed to buy electrical materials from a wholesalers, etc.

I have just had a look at the Licencing web site but isn't this what the JIB should be for. I mean how many things do we need, the IEE, HSE, TRUSTMARK, ELECSA, ECA, NICEIC, NAPIT, PARTP, JIB, LABC, c'mon Mr Cameron, this one's ripe for some streamlining.

On the money.
The problem is the dinosaur spark. You all know one, lots of knowledge with a C+G pt 1+2 and is still 15th edition. His cv shows that he has worked all over and on everything. He looks at his trade, see's the 4 week spark and doesnt like it.
These men have so much to pass on but are treated like lepers. A single body, with a sympathetic view and willingness to recognise the acheivements, should help them get up to date via assessments and grants for 17th courses. Not try to extract as much cash as possible and alienate them.
Most of the time an experienced spark works to the regs without even knowing, its in the blood.
It is what the JIB is for, but its got no teeth and is part of the rip the trades off cartel. I have got a 5yr JIB apprenticship and was not considered for a job because I was told an NVQ was the qualification. In the real world a JIB card is useless outside a JIB firm.

 

[Bob D Nero]

Believe it or I live Spain and they have a licensing system here.
It's a three tier system, Professional theory qualification, Practical qualifiaction and a certificate of authorisation.
All three are linked to you ID number which is also your tax number, you cant get a cert of authorisation without being actively self-employed and paying social security and making tax and vat declarations and also having a valid public liability. The whole lot is then registered and monitored through the local ministry of industry. Stops a lot of cowboys now. Ant the regs here are just as tight as the 17th.