Campaign for an electrician's licence scheme...Please Read...

[RexT]

Hi Acat,

I agree with you about the MPs. They are quick to come round asking for your vote, promising a great deal and after the election the selective memory bit kicks in and we have to wait etc. It would be good to keep a record and try to do something positive. The public are very quick to blame someone when there is a problem and it would be good to get people to realise the truth.

Good comments,

Best wishes

Rex

 

[Roggi]

Who would support the introduction of a Licence scheme for electricans, as used in Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc etc.

Well, you can.

I have heard so many electrcians say "what we need is a licensing scheme like in Australia, that would solve the problem..... But it will never happen"

Take a look at L-E-C.org.uk - The Licensed Electricians Campaign

If the vast majority of electricians supported this campaign, the government wiould have to listen and act.

Comments please.

I agree we do need some regulation against these one day courses and at the end of it your a sparks but how will this work and somewhere another governing body will be making money out of the poor sparks...There seems to be more money in training then the actual job these days

 

[stef]

I the think' time served' and apprenticeships is something from the previous century. An electrician is first and foremost an electrical engineer. To be an engineer you need to go to college and study science, maths etc. I dont want to be called a Spark. That sound stupid and reminds me of fat block in dirty overalls. It should be professional. It does not take 4 years to learn how to bend conduit. Another thing, installation methods, tegnology etc are changing so quickly that somebody who did an apprenticeship 40years ago, I mean, it means nothing to me. I used to think an electrician is somebody like a tradesman, but they are not, they are much more. Eduacation should be much more important and experience less so. If you completed your studies as a doctor, you are a doctor. You dont have to have 4 years hospital experience and do an apprenticeship. Going to college is hard and diffecult. Not everybody can do it. But times are changing. Quite a few older electricians feel threatened by the new breed of electrician that focus more on academic eduacation rather than practical experience. But the electrical industry is changing, what was good 40 years ago, does not cut it anymore.

Yeah, I felt the same until someone convinced me to join the IET as a professional. The assessment was quite time consuming and work intensive but now I am classified as a professional Engineering Technician. I had to prove my qualifications, knowledge and achievements (and that wasn't cheap)
but at least I have a professional status. Quite a bit worth in the industry.

 

[JAKES DAD]

Hi Yes good idea. What would the minimum quals be.would I qualify 55 years old, 35 years in the trade C&G Electricians certificate, 15th & 16th editions.

 

[Lec]

Hi Yes good idea. What would the minimum quals be.would I qualify 55 years old, 35 years in the trade C&G Electricians certificate, 15th & 16th editions.

Yes you would at the appropriate level.
There would be a number of levels, like the schemes run around the world at present.
Take a look at some of the links on my web site and you will see what I mean.
My question to you is why no 17th Ed?
If you carry out electrical work, how do you know if what you do meets the current regs, if you don't know what the 17th Ed contains and how if differs from the 16th.

 

[m25maintenance]

guys i understand all ur points. in the real world most customers hear the word cheap b4 papers. so if they dont bother looking for quals, then thats their problem. i know we are losing income to cow boys but just be proud of the job u do, and do it to the best of ur ability and 4get the other idiots out there. when 10 people burn to death then the gov will wake up

 

[elektrisien]

I agree, there are too many electricians that dont have the qualifications too be deemed professional. You should have at least NVQ3, City and Guilds level 3, Inspection and testing 2392.../2391 and the 17th edition. That will keep foreign competition out, and all the semi-skilled that call them self electricians. That is the only way forward. Nowadays anybody call themselves electricians on experience or intensive courses. You should do the time and spent the money to qualify yourself. Bottoms up !!!

 

[confused-fuse]

what is this EU-ELECTRICIANS card i keep hearing when i'm out and about and thay say part-p is only for english trained electricians.. a friend of mine asked some forign sparky who was working on a building site for homes .. he said he as no UK quals what so ever and a agent got him the job from his country " someone else tests the end job " .. i see why thay is no work for the british sparky.. i do agree on some parts of a licanse for sparkies but saying that how many clients ask can you fit this for me .. new lighting,new sockets,new switches thay have gone out and paid for.. if thay stop all electrical items for none trade alot of shops would close down . light the lighting bug who sell alot of lighting,elecrtical fitting ect..

 

[Jason Smith]

what is this EU-ELECTRICIANS card i keep hearing when i'm out and about and thay say part-p is only for english trained electricians.. a friend of mine asked some forign sparky who was working on a building site for homes .. he said he as no UK quals what so ever and a agent got him the job from his country " someone else tests the end job " .. i see why thay is no work for the british sparky.. i do agree on some parts of a licanse for sparkies but saying that how many clients ask can you fit this for me .. new lighting,new sockets,new switches thay have gone out and paid for.. if thay stop all electrical items for none trade alot of shops would close down . light the lighting bug who sell alot of lighting,elecrtical fitting ect..

Our industry is the same as shops. Competition is very healthy, and improves the service to customers and keeps a lid on prices. That is why we must never have one licence provider, when we vote in a government, we have a choice of who we vote for, and who doesnt get in provides the opposition that prevents us having DICTATORS that say, as history suggests do actually that, Dictate. like in other countries. We all have our personal choice of scheme providers, keep them in competition with each other and we will be be well looked after. Would you like a dictator telling you you have to spend another £1k on xyz ?
Dont think so. I like a choice of who supplies my gas, where I buy my food, which scheme provider I use etc. They have to attract my business and provide sufficent incentive to extract me from my money. Rule Britania !! One licence provider- Get stuffed !!

 

[Jason Smith]

I agree we do need some regulation against these one day courses and at the end of it your a sparks but how will this work and somewhere another governing body will be making money out of the poor sparks...There seems to be more money in training then the actual job these days

Tell me where there is a one day course that will qualify you as a sparks.....

 

[confused-fuse]

ebay 1 day part-p gola exam 20 questions 40mins 100% passrate £149.00 5day 2931 100% passrate or resit for free £300.. thay are a few on ebay you can pay and do ... anyone can do them no formal exams needed

 

[jcarlie]

This is the exact reason why we are in the position we are in.There should not be a quicker or alternative route to becoming fully qualified electrician.In my view everyone must have to undergo the same training for the same length of time before they are deemed "competent".I used to work for British Gas,they put some of their alarm engineers on a 12 month training scheme,which included 2391,when this was challenged at a team meeting the response was the exact reason why these courses are so prevalent "WHERE IN THE REGS DOES IT SAY YOU HAVE TO BE QUALIFIED?,IT ONLY SAYS YOU NEED TO BE COMPETENT".This loophole or whatever you wanna call it needs closing,its complete and utter bull****.This is the reason why you can get on these courses that ,in my view ,are undermining the whole industry,Keeping the wages down and endorsing fasttrack qualification

 

[andyb]

"WHERE IN THE REGS DOES IT SAY YOU HAVE TO BE QUALIFIED?,IT ONLY SAYS YOU NEED TO BE COMPETENT".

At my assessment last week my assessor told me about 2 'electricians' that failed the previous week.

1 had no main bonding anywhere, he seemed to think that he did not need to install it if he was only doing an addition.
2 had wired a tt system in such a way that the neutral became live when the rcd tripped.

Both were fully qualified time served 'electricians', neither were competent.

As I've said before on this forum, read some of the posts by electricians asking questions before their 1st assessment, most fully qualified, but certainly not competent.

I would say you need to be both qualified & competent.

 

[confused-fuse]

i have been in the electronics & electrical trade for years 1983 i started collage and im still doing courses and other stuff
training never ends when your in this trade either computers/networks/eletrical/electronic i think i'm time served but i'm doing my 2391 at the moment just to keep upto date with regs ? if you call it that.. and before someone say what about all the other c&g or nvq .. i did my 15th year ago .. i have c&g 224 electronic servicing lvl 3 ,2377 pat testing,ham radio,microsoft A+,MSCE, i had a break for 2 years due to cancer and other medical problems.. and im back doing electrical stuff i know someone going to slam me and say your not qualified to do anywork .. but i am if you have someone watching over you till i get my t&i and i always do things by the book..

right now what this green/yellow wire doing on this gas pipe .. (JOKE)

 

[JAKES DAD]

Sounds very idealistic and not very realistic to me. If people who want to pay cheap for electrical work can't get it done cheap, they're more likely to either leave it, get a mate to do it or have a go themselves.

Yep. Got it in one. The cuts,massive local government job losses are on the horizon again.Money talks the cheaper the better,especially in the North of England where I live.The LABC wallers will be for the chop,cheapo privatised contractors will be manning the desks at the local councils,if you think its not getting policed now wait till this time next year
BTW the Tories are going to look at the Building regs in a view to cutting them down to size.I have got a link if any bodys interested. THE COUNTRY IS NIGH ON BANKRUPT,to much red tape and crap like that stifeling the private sector Time served sparks only.Been in the trade 35 years and still learning.
Close the bloody dodgy training (pay yer money add water, hey presto instant Spark)centers.
Money should be ploughed into getting the 16 year old kids into apprenticeships, not 40 year old IT workers having a midlife crisis cause the daft adverts on the tele say there is a shotage of Sparks in the UK, train to be one and earn 75K per year.Shortage of Sparks my arse, shortage of work more like

 

[b-spark]

Dont we already have this in the UK- Niceic is a charity, all profits go to the electrical safety
councill, - The secretary of state says that a person can only be registered with a competent persons body if he/she can pass an assesment etc, with work produced- This again is Napitt, elecsa, niceic etc- The link above once again, infers some kind of slur on those that were able to do a short course. Whether you did a short course or not, you wont get through a first assesment if you lack practical skills and technical electrical knowledge.

Im sorry to ad but the whole part p is a sorry state of affairs. I had my mate look at the whole document regarding this comp person scheme.
This guy works for one of the top three lawyer firms in england.
He's told me if you were to carry on working but producing certs and doing by the regs while not under a scheme the law cant touch you!
If you notice on building plans it will say elec's to be done under part scheme or bs7671 produced to local building control. Also note any scheme can only kick out a member who cant comply to there requirements.They cant take them to court nor can they take action on anybody not conforming to part p.
If you ever read the latest law action in regards to elec safety is only after the business has not corrected the works.After being given chances
Its a very very poor regulation which got pushed through the labour party to mark up their books rather than our benifits.
We do need something like this to happen Its very hard to define a comp person and not after all the law will only do you on the 1985 elec act not bs7671.

 

[UNG]

If you carry out electrical work, how do you know if what you do meets the current regs, if you don't know what the 17th Ed contains and how if differs from the 16th.

Do you have to pass an exam to actually prove you can read and understand the regs?

That is like saying anyone who has recently entered the industry can't do inspection and testing because they don't understand the 15th or 16th edition regs and most installations wired to those regs are still safe and compliant with those versions

 

[cantabrian9]

YEH I AGREE us sparks could do with some sought of licence? it does appear on this forum that it is more for housebashers(no problem i can do that work BUT SLOW!!) when you do get on a proper job(no offence)you will find allsorts!!! moan to the engineer and they say dont worry they will be long gone and you proper sparks will still be AROUND TO SORT THE S--- OUT thats life with the money on offer for a proper SPARK is it REALLY WORTH IT

 

[tommy56]

cant believe people are falling for this crap.

More exspense for the sparks, just another quango with no real power.

Your never gonna stop someone from doing electrical work even though

they aint licensed, its not humanly possible.


​

 

[JAKES DAD]

cant believe people are falling for this crap.​

More exspense for the sparks, just another quango with no real power.​

Your never gonna stop someone from doing electrical work even though​

they aint licensed, its not humanly possible.​

My sentiments also, **** Part stealth tax(I mean p ) 55 years old been in the Electrical contracting industry all my life, been self employed for 17 years, first thing I did when I went SE was to buy full set of test equipment,and the green NICEIC test sheets and 2 million PL insurance.Always test my work and issue test certs. I am certainly not going to pay some bloody jobsworth scam providors my hard earned cash for somthing I have been doing since day 1.Why carnt these scams be free.Get rid of non time served domestic installer cowboys kitchen fitters and the like,carnt they make enough money sticking to the trade they know without encroaching and stealing work from TS sparks greedy *******s.
Part P is dead and buried.