Campaign for an electrician's licence scheme...Please Read...

[cantabrian9]

WELL, i dunno which bit of spain you are in,but here in the backwoods of Almeria province you dont need no savvy to be a spark and there is not much in the way of regs!! polarity is a dirty word,testing is even dirtier!!!! i could go on but i am getting away from the original thread,---as Big n Daft mentioned (well done!!) i am one of those dinosaurs,but i will not pay out anymore money for another ticket (either 17th OR safety!!) for some UNQUALIFIED moron in a office making money from US, these office wallahs and the like couldn´t even boil a kettle if it weren´t for us

 

[mayfair]

Regs for Spain here in Alicante are quite stringent, tests are done as in 17th, ITC BT 25 is the domestic side and BT28 more for public buildings with various numbers in between All tox free cable in Public buildings and yes they do check !!! All CU are identified plus warning stickers plus much much more.

WELL, i dunno which bit of spain you are in,but here in the backwoods of Almeria province you dont need no savvy to be a spark and there is not much in the way of regs!! polarity is a dirty word,testing is even dirtier!!!! i could go on but i am getting away from the original thread,---as Big n Daft mentioned (well done!!) i am one of those dinosaurs,but i will not pay out anymore money for another ticket (either 17th OR safety!!) for some UNQUALIFIED moron in a office making money from US, these office wallahs and the like couldn´t even boil a kettle if it weren´t for us

 

[Bob D Nero]

WELL, i dunno which bit of spain you are in,but here in the backwoods of Almeria province you dont need no savvy to be a spark and there is not much in the way of regs!! polarity is a dirty word,testing is even dirtier!!!! i could go on but i am getting away from the original thread,---as Big n Daft mentioned (well done!!) i am one of those dinosaurs,but i will not pay out anymore money for another ticket (either 17th OR safety!!) for some UNQUALIFIED moron in a office making money from US, these office wallahs and the like couldn´t even boil a kettle if it weren´t for us

In Menorca which is incredibly backwards in alot of respects however with electrics, gas, plumbling and aircon theyve tightened right up in the last couple of years.

And to go back on topic if I have to pay to be liscened in th UK so be it. I''ve got no problem with a liscencing system.

 

[trev]

Would it not be better to start a petition on the Prime Minister's website. 100,000 signatures and they have to debate it in parliament. I'll volunteer to start it if no one has already

 

[Zeno]

Thanks Tvev1 for pointing me to this thread.

A licensing Scheme would be a good idea, one brand/name like Gas Safe, and several Schemes, I would not trust any of the Schemes to run a single scheme dictatorship, the costs would go through the roof.


The Propaganda from the Schemes and DCLG (Government) is, that a Licensing Scheme does not work in Australia and NZ and that it is a restrictive practise, because the public cannot do anything. I think that the public should be able to do a restricted set of work as they do now.


The Schemes don't want it because they like the QS system, and the thought of a Individual Licensing System to enable Competence on the Doorstep for the public, is a Major threat to their membership numbers and profits.

We will never get anywhere until Our Trade is speaking to Politicians that make the decisions, because one thing for sure is that Parliamentary Under Secretary of State Andrew Stunell MP, Minister for Part P, will not have been told what his own department and the Schemes are up to.


At the moment the Schemes speak on behalf of Our Trade to DCLG, do you really think that they state the full facts.


Has everyone seen what their Schemes have stated to DCLG for the new Part P Mk2 ? Yeah Right.


Its not about Competence, its about Money.

 

[darking]

cynical but sadly, true

 

[matt v]

I have dipped in and out of these posts so excuse me if I am repeating anyone. These schemes would be great, but until sales of electrical installation materials are restricted you will never be able to change anything, its one thing for a consumer to choose some lights but when they can buy consumer units, armoured cable etc how will you stop unlicensed installs in private dwellings?
Touching on another topic, I spent 15 years in landscape design and build (self employed) and decided to change tac and specialise in garden lighting. Did the course got the quals, (2330, 17th, part p)paid the money. The things I have seen from time served sparks in this context has suprised me, a lack of understanding of install and product mainly. Having specced lighting schemes with a qualified spark I decided to do it myself, and having done some house bashing with him have found my building skills and business skills have seen me in good stead. There is a placce for re education, and always a place for continued education.
I would still want to be part of the scheme tho!

 

[grantr37]

If there was to be a license system for electricians all that would happen is that many many thousands of electricians would be denied membership, or have it removed because a pen-pusher without any knowledge or understanding felt like it,and any electrician that is unfortunate enough to be put on the "unsavory individuals list" aka "do not employ list" which we can assume still exist and operate for most trades would get a red letter in the post and be banned and banished.......a lot of things are tied together in different ways.....just like when you annoy a friend or relative of a certain type of official person clad in black and yellow clothing...and your transport gets added to "of interest" then you start getting pulled over all over the country....work licenses removed= less competition=more money to be made by less people= big business gets involved through hook or crook in the process of administering and issuing of licenses

 

[TPES]

Would it not be better to start a petition on the Prime Minister's website. 100,000 signatures and they have to debate it in parliament. I'll volunteer to start it if no one has already

Good idea, I've signed a few of these petitions in the hope of making a difference to this sad state of a country

 

[TPES]

Is this the one?

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/5485

 

[grantr37]

would anybody here like to be denied work because they didn't have a license? it would be like having your driving license taken away.....imagine having your work license taken away for no good and fair reason....whats that? I have to go for an £800 medical for the insurance company before they will cover me...because they can make me do that.... and I need to keep it continuous by law.....whats that? my bad back makes my insurance more expensive.....what five thousand.....for one year......oh no they will take away my sparks license if my insurance runs out....

just think about all the good bar people who had to stop working in bars and pubs due to the individual licenses that came in.....a lot of money to do the course.....very expensive and few pubs willing to pay...so have to part with cash themselves.....got a speeding fine....maybe a nuisance noise visit when you were an 18 year old student playing loud music....or what was that? the person at the council doesn't like your sister....so they motion to deny approval....oh well too bad there's lots of other people out there so they are quite happy to ignore your appeal...and in any case they feel like they are too busy to bother...

 

[trev]

Grant can we assume from your post that you're happy with the status quo?
Where good sparks are missing out on work because they are not signed up to a scam provider despite having a list of qualifications as long as your arm.
Where guys who can go out and work on massive voltages are unable to work in their own homes legally for the same reason, Where the cowboys are propspering because they don't adhere to the rules and the system allows them to get away with it. And the only ones profitting out of the whole sorry mess are the scam providers since they make their fees whether they let you join their gang or not

 

[Specialist]

Seriously doubt that a licence for Electricians will stop the Cowboys or Joe blogs down the road from doing Electrical work. No matter what license you have there will still be Cowboys doing work, they have Licensed Electricians in America & it sure has'nt stopped the butchers doing Electrics. Not only that but how is this Licence going to work to stop the Qualified Cowboy ? Don't know about you but i've seen many bad / dangerous jobs carried out by fully qualified Electricians, how is any Licence going to stop them ?.

 

[darking]

So if there was a single body, nationally recognised, that made a thorough check on any applicants qualifications and competence, charged a low fee for the registration and re-registration of electricians, say every three years, who issued a card used as photo id as proof of accreditation surely would be cheap to run and administer fairly?

But wait, we have all that in place already, a JIB card! All we need to petition for is for that to become statutory, and the job is done and we have the electricity at work act that can enforce it

 

[TPES]

would anybody here like to be denied work because they didn't have a license?...

I'm all for it..

If I wanted to be an electrician then I would do all it took to get the licence if this was the career I so badly wanted.

If I was already an electrician then I would take what ever courses I needed to take to be issued with a licence..

If they bring this licence out and your an electrician that would be worried about loosing work because you didn't have a licence then do what is required to gain your licence, simple. if your good at what you do have the knowledge and high standards of work then you will have no worries.

Who is worried about this and why?

 

[Specialist]

So if there was a single body, nationally recognised, that made a thorough check on any applicants qualifications and competence, charged a low fee for the registration and re-registration of electricians, say every three years, who issued a card used as photo id as proof of accreditation surely would be cheap to run and administer fairly?

But wait, we have all that in place already, a JIB card! All we need to petition for is for that to become statutory, and the job is done and we have the electricity at work act that can enforce it

OK but does the JIB card & their checks on peoples qualifications / competence stop them going out & doing shoddy / dangerous work after they've got it ?: NO the same as Part P has'nt stopped the Cowboys in the domestic side, if anything there are more of them. NIC check peoples work etc but does that stop a lot of NIC registered contractors doing shoddy work ? NO of course it does'nt, so why do people think that a Licence is going to do any better.

 

[Arnold Layne]

Darking, I assume by JIB card that what you are actually referring to is the ECS ( Electrotechnical Scheme card) card which is affiliated to the CSCS. This is a scheme which was introduced to ensure Health and Safely, which is absolutely necessary. However whilst they can check paperwork qualifications, which is good, I don't see how it checks competence. It is not an independent scheme, as others have called for. It is administered by the ECA

 

[alarm man]

a licence wouldnt work,why issue one and no doubt have to pay for it when the entry into it is a quick course to get it,will make things worse imo,like darking says we have a sort of one anyway in the jib,ive said it before those who have been in the trade for years and have no jib card or the latest quals should be given a test to prove their competence and issued with a jib electrcian card and paid that rate as that will be the standard,the industry does need to be tightened its the quick course diet spark thats the biggest threat,the companies also need to get the apprenticeship scheme back on course,real training over real time regardless of age,

 

[darking]

As I Said the EAWR cover competency

Reg 16. Persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury

No person shall be engaged in any work activity where technical knowledge or experience is necessary to prevent danger or, where appropriate, injury, unless he possesses such knowledge or experience, or is under such degree of supervision as may be appropriate having regard to the nature of the work

We have legislation we need to petition to have it enforced with prosecution for any infringement

 

[imago]

I'm all for it..

If I wanted to be an electrician then I would do all it took to get the licence if this was the career I so badly wanted.

If I was already an electrician then I would take what ever courses I needed to take to be issued with a licence..

If they bring this licence out and your an electrician that would be worried about loosing work because you didn't have a licence then do what is required to gain your licence, simple. if your good at what you do have the knowledge and high standards of work then you will have no worries.

Which is what we have now, so there's no need for a campaign or a license.

Darking has it spot on IMHO. The system is already in place, as is the legislation, standards and inspectors. The part that's sadly lacking is any meaningfull enforcement.

Campaigning for yet another level and type of beaurocracy is madness.