Commercial PIR on a LARGE site.

[tonys]

[FONT=&quot]The service head and the main switchgear are located within cupboard adjacent to Gas intake cupboard. There are no circuit charts or installation records installed adjacent to the mains position.

Someone want to code it to see what people come up with? it is a real finding by the way.
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[IQ Electrical]

Just as a point of interest.
What code would you apply to lack of circuit identification in this or similar instances?
Would your choice of code be affected by the number of unidentified circuits?

It would depend on the use of the building, you need to assess the impact of the lack of labelling.
Is it safety or inconvenience?

A factory full of guys who've worked there for years will have no problem knowing which isolator relates to which machine.

A school metalwork classroom is a different kettle of fish.

On my report, one scenario would attract a code 4, the other a 2.

 

[tonys]

IQ - My question relates to the main panel/switch gear for a residential building. Feeds all the dwellings and landlords etc, the building had no maintenance programme in place and was just looked after by a warden.

 

[IQ Electrical]

IQ - My question relates to the main panel/switch gear for a residential building. Feeds all the dwellings and landlords etc, the building had no maintenance programme in place and was just looked after by a warden.

Well there's a definite safe isolation issue there, I'd want to see at least identification of each distribution circuit so I'd allocate a code 2 to that.

 

[tonys]

Well there's a definite safe isolation issue there, I'd want to see at least identification of each distribution circuit so I'd allocate a code 2 to that.

That's what code I gave it. I ripped the installation to pieces along with another 3 courts, all a fair size.

Never got the remedial works, heard a rumor that, the reports and test schedules got stuffed in a draw, the authority did not want pay to put everything right.

When they advertise for the odd Electrician they won't give me an interview.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Yes, how many times do you hand your PIR to the client and watch his/her jaw drop as they read the list of defects?

They don't seem to even consider the fact that the installation might have defects when they send the order for the PIR!

 

[tonys]

Yep, they want some sort of certificate of excellence

 

[leolec]

Yep, they want some sort of certificate of excellence

So if the remedial work isn't carried out - does this void their insurance or effect their responsibility for the people using the building or does it just get swept under the carpet hoping that nothing untoward happens?

 

[IQ Electrical]

If the duty holder is sitting on a PIR with an 'unsatisfactory' assessment, should an incident occur then how would he/she ever prove compliance with EAWR 1989, specifically the 'maintained as practicable to prevent danger' bit?

 

[leolec]

If the duty holder is sitting on a PIR with an 'unsatisfactory' assessment, should an incident occur then how would he/she ever prove compliance with EAWR 1989, specifically the 'maintained as practicable to prevent danger' bit?

Got to be right, I don't think the duty holders are getting it yet, the changes in legislation over the last couple of years have improved things but there's still along way to go.

Is it up to us the electrician to point out their responsibilities or does this just give them too much needle to handle?

 

[mainebankelec]

on the query of pir what coding would you grade a machine interlock isolator being able to be opened to acess inside a machine while turned on?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If the PIR is being conducted solely to BS7671, then no code at all.
If however the extent of the inspection also includes BS EN 60204-1, and if you are using the same coding as for BS7671, then a code 4 if the machine requires a tool for access, or code 2 if not.
Obviously, if the access door is hanging off, or is wide open I would apply a code 1.

 

[aaelectric]

HI i need a few pointers doing a periodic on an old dance studio as i havn done much on commercial..
when doing the pir do you have to test all the sub mains??
there is a3phase ryeful board which has fuses on it then from there are single phase isolators feeding each single phase board around 7 boards.
the sub mains cannot be turned off during normall hours so what would i put on the pir?
also on the pi report do i put the main board as the three phase ryeful board and looped supply as sub main?if sub mains do need to be tested do they just need an r1+r2 & zs.how can i test the ze if i carnt dissconnect main earth?
all the submains are 10mm 2core and are using the armoured sheath as the earthing. is this acceptable or do they need a seperate earth. what equation would you use to work out if the earthing is sufficent.
thanks for the replies in advance. As i haven done much commercial pir's please be leaneant!
aaelectrics.

 

[IQ Electrical]

HI i need a few pointers doing a periodic on an old dance studio as i havn done much on commercial..
when doing the pir do you have to test all the sub mains??
there is a3phase ryeful board which has fuses on it then from there are single phase isolators feeding each single phase board around 7 boards.
the sub mains cannot be turned off during normall hours so what would i put on the pir?
also on the pi report do i put the main board as the three phase ryeful board and looped supply as sub main?if sub mains do need to be tested do they just need an r1+r2 & zs.how can i test the ze if i carnt dissconnect main earth?
all the submains are 10mm 2core and are using the armoured sheath as the earthing. is this acceptable or do they need a seperate earth. what equation would you use to work out if the earthing is sufficent.
thanks for the replies in advance. As i haven done much commercial pir's please be leaneant!
aaelectrics.

Do you consider yourself competent to do this PIR?

Commercial or not, what would you enter on a domestic PIR if the client insisted that a circuit could not be isolated?

If the distribution circuits can't be isolated during normal hours, why not arrange an hour or 2 after close of business to complete the distribution circuit tests and also Ze?

You need to research the adiabatic equation for sizing CPC's etc.

If you're still unsure, why not enlist the help of a competent inspector and assist him during the inspection & testing?

 

[aaelectric]

i would put it in limatations!.i have a good idea of testing all fuseboards etc but not about the testing of submains. i know of the adiabiatic equation. i will have a go at this but could you pls express on the sub main testing etc
thanks IQ

 

[IQ Electrical]

i would put it in limatations!.i have a good idea of testing all fuseboards etc but not about the testing of submains. i know of the adiabiatic equation. i will have a go at this but could you pls express on the sub main testing etc
thanks IQ

If you treat the distribution circuits as you would any other circuit but with a 5 second disconnection time (assuming a TN system).

Have a search of the 'stickies' on the forum for SWA armour size compliance.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I've found it: http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...ulations/23288-can-we-use-armour-swa-cpc.html

 

[aaelectric]

thanks iq very helpful!!
so would you do an r1+r2 and zs test on sub mains

 

[IQ Electrical]

thanks iq very helpful!!
so would you do an r1+r2 and zs test on sub mains

If you can do those tests then do them, you'll be doing the Zs anyway at the DBs that the distribution circuits are feeding.

 

[aaelectric]

ok normally when you do readings on larger cables the r1+r2 come out around 0.00 as the furthest run is around 20m
isit worth doing these