Consumer Unused Spare ways

[seftonbarn]

I am fitting a new dual CU that comes with 10MCBs. For those that are unused is it acceptable to just leave them installed but switched off and identified as unused. Or should they be removed and replaced with blanks?

 

[Octopus]

I think that all unused MCB's should be removed and replaced by blanks. Others may disagree.

Saw one recently - 10 way board, 10 MCB's, only 4 in use. Talk about confusing the old couple.

 

[ayrshirespark]

dont remove them leave them fitted as may come a day you need the extra ways ,most councils now ask for a spare 40 amp to be fitted for future electric shower fitting,so no need to remove

 

[sparky-s-w]

i keep them installed, as the customers usually like the idea that they have got spare breakers.
and for my sins i keep them switched on, customers usualy only need to access the board to re-set a trip, if spare breakers are down aswell can confuse the clueless.

im sure that iff they are installed correctly then theres no issues, may be wrong

 

[Swicade]

I'd remove them and install blanks personaly.....unless anyone ask's for them to be left as spare.

It is handy to go to a board with alot of spare MCB's in place when adding extra circuits BUT on the flip side if at a later date someone needs an extra circuit fitted there's a good chance i have a spare MCB in the van to use (of the right make of course) which i can charge for....if MCB is already there can charge for it (conscience wont let me)

 

[seftonbarn]

i keep them installed, as the customers usually like the idea that they have got spare breakers.
and for my sins i keep them switched on, customers usualy only need to access the board to re-set a trip, if spare breakers are down aswell can confuse the clueless.

im sure that iff they are installed correctly then theres no issues, may be wrong

Yes, I was thinking this too.

 

[telectrix]

i leave them in, simply because it's all too easy for those stupid clip in blanks to fall out and compromise the IP rating, leaving a hole just right for a child's fingers to poke in and touch the live busbar.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Surely if your fitting a new board adjacent to it will be a circuit identification chart as required by the regulation 514.9.1 in the big green book ? So users of the installation are aware of points of utilization etc
ATB J

 

[Jimmy Boy]

i leave them in, simply because it's all too easy for those stupid clip in blanks to fall out and compromise the IP rating, leaving a hole just right for a child's fingers to poke in and touch the live busbar.

Tel the only place for clip in blanks is the bin they should be banned I fit din mounted always they cant fall out.
J

 

[malcolmsanford]

I leave in, the customer as paid for them to my mind, so unless they specify please remove I always leave them in .

 

[telectrix]

Tel the only place for clip in blanks is the bin they should be banned I fit din mounted always they cant fall out.
J

i totally agree, but most CUs come with the clip in ones or none at all. as malc. says, if the customer has paid for a fully loaded board then he gets a fully loaded board.

 

[TPES]

I always remove unused MCB's and fit blanks, as I mainly use hager CU's I have bags full of the DIN mounted blanks, they fit on just like a MCB and won't fall off.

 

[sparky-s-w]

Surely if your fitting a new board adjacent to it will be a circuit identification chart as required by the regulation 514.9.1 in the big green book ? So users of the installation are aware of points of utilization etc
ATB J

yep i put these with all my domestic CCU changes, as customers cant read the labeled circuits, and scam assesors always pull me up on it if i forget.:tounge_smile:

 

[Octopus]

Surely if your fitting a new board adjacent to it will be a circuit identification chart as required by the regulation 514.9.1 in the big green book ? So users of the installation are aware of points of utilization etc
ATB J

Lucky to find a new CU labelled round here let alone a circuit chart

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Yep tel I would leave unused breakers in rather than clip in blanks,they give you that stupid plastic bus bar cover to protect your pinkys when the board cover is off then provide a nice finger sized hole when the blanks fall out I would like to see the return of insulated bus bars so you just nip off the plastic where it goes in to the breaker
J

 

[seftonbarn]

i leave them in, simply because it's all too easy for those stupid clip in blanks to fall out and compromise the IP rating, leaving a hole just right for a child's fingers to poke in and touch the live busbar.

Yes, good point. Those blanks can be a bit hit and miss.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Lucky to find a new CU labelled round here let alone a circuit charge

I know a couple of very experienced sparks that have had a warning from the scam assessors about this it's a minor they still got their ticket but hey ho
J

 

[seftonbarn]

Surely if your fitting a new board adjacent to it will be a circuit identification chart as required by the regulation 514.9.1 in the big green book ? So users of the installation are aware of points of utilization etc
ATB J

Yes of course. Not really sure what this has got to do with the thread though.

 

[Octopus]

I use the blanks that you can only fit by removing the cover as I toom hate those cheap clip in ones.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Yes of course. Not really sure what this has got to do with the thread though.

Sorry hadn't realised you were policing the forum.
My comment was in reference to how the thread develops and the need for labelling and charts, as the OP mentioned 'Identifying' unused circuits.
Next time I want to post something I will run it by you first ..:32:

J

 

[oldtimer]

The manufacturer should make a plastic clip say blue in colour and then you switch off all the MCBs not in use so the customer can see the ones that are in use with the blue clip indicating not used. I tend to go along the road of putting blanks in then giveing the spares to the customer (yes I know they will get lost) but some just leave them on top of the CU and they think it is good customer service

 

[Deleted member 9648]

we prefer to remove unused MCB's and fit blanks....that way it's obvious to even the uninitiated which ways are in use. One of my pet hates is those who scrawl 'SPARE' across an unused way,making it impossible to write on the label in the future if the way is used. If a blank is installed it's obvious it has no function....if you leave an unused MCB in there it's not....hence the inevitable 'SPARE' scrawled by some.:-------:

 

[Octopus]

You could always just buy the MCB's you need!

 

[Johnny-G]

I never leave unused ones in but always use DIN mounted blanking plates so they can't come off.
Leaving unused ones in just confuses some people believe it or not.
I always mark as BLANK on the EIC but nothing on the board itself in case the space is needed in the future, if the customer requests a spare put in then SPARE & rating, type etc is on the EIC again with nothing on the board.
If you do leave one in, always make it clear on the EIC what it is to cover yo ---.

 

[seftonbarn]

Sorry hadn't realised you were policing the forum.
My comment was in reference to how the thread develops and the need for labelling and charts, as the OP mentioned 'Identifying' unused circuits.
Next time I want to post something I will run it by you first ..:32:

J

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. Thanks for the response. There are some out there that use forums such as this to show off their knowledge of the regulations and take every opportunity to post comments that imply that others know nothing of the regs. The info you posted, though not directly related to the original OP was, I agree, of value. Thank you.

 

[oldtimer]

You could always just buy the MCB's you need!

A bit like the MEM 2000 board I was called out to only to find the shower switch wired up the wrong way and the shower circuit wired in with the kitchen ring and yes this board was fitted in the days when you bought the MCBs separately plus when Wylex does that deal with the sockets and the 5 extra MCBs thrown in why are they all 32A and where are you going to put them as the CU supplied is already full ?

 

[JD6400]

we prefer to remove unused MCB's and fit blanks....that way it's obvious to even the uninitiated which ways are in use. One of my pet hates is those who scrawl 'SPARE' across an unused way,making it impossible to write on the label in the future if the way is used. If a blank is installed it's obvious it has no function....if you leave an unused MCB in there it's not....hence the inevitable 'SPARE' scrawled by some.:-------:

We do the same as you Wirepuller , but leave the spares on top of the board as that way they tend not to get lost , also as and when that particular model of breaker is superseded the client has at least a chance of not having to replace the whole board if the parts are either extortionate or in short demand !
And I'm with you when it comes to writing spare all over the board ! Why do it ?

 

[oldtimer]

Or there is this I found last month plus the live bar did not have a cover on it..



This is a board I did in a rental property but the first picture was a guy who could not be bothered in my view

 

[Amp David]

Leave out unused MCBs a fit blanks. Blanks are made for this!

Everyone know whats what when it comes to how many circuit are fed from the CU.

 

[Lucas]

I take them out and put decent blanks in, i only fit Hager boards so I can always get hold of good blanks. Personally I think It's rough to leave unused MCB's in. If your concerned about the customer having paid for them then give them to the customer instead of leaving them in the board.

 

[sparky-s-w]

I take them out and put decent blanks in, i only fit Hager boards so I can always get hold of good blanks. Personally I think It's rough to leave unused MCB's in. If your concerned about the customer having paid for them then give them to the customer instead of leaving them in the board.

why is it rough, there is no safety isue and regards asthetics, well i recon fully loaded looks beter than with blanks.

 

[applemac]

yep i leave them in to protect busbar from straying pinkys,

 

[kingeri]

I leave them in and turned off. I don't write 'spare' or 'unused' beneath them though, as I find this really annoying when I come to use a spare way and I want to label it as to its use!

 

[1shortcircuit]

I ALWAYS remove and only for one reason... To stop silly DIYers taking a new circuit into a spare breaker.

Here's an example.

My consumer unit cupboard is rather dark... I know, I'll wire a light in there. That working on a fuseboard looks really easy after watching that spark. It's only a few wires it'll be fine.

Yep, until those few pieces of a 1.5mm scrap cable, ancient light and switch found in the garage end up in a 32A breaker.... One day... BOOM!!!!, neee naaaaa neeeee naaaaaa. Oh hello fireman Sam, not sure what that electrician did when he was here but my fuse board is on fire now, Plleeeeeeeeaaaaase Help????

 

[Swicade]

Very good point there 1shortcircuit.

 

[Rockingit]

Agree with all the thoughts that the clip-in type blanks are not good for much and I prefer the DIN mount ones, but they do have a place for when you've got a board that's got a half-width module in it!

 

[Lucas]

Because It's lazy, maybe rough wasn't the right word but I would say it is very poor practice. The breaker is serving no purpose and the average homeowner is an idiot. It may not be labelled but Joe average probably think's it is doing something

 

[baldelectrician]

I don't fit MCB's in the spaces for reasons mostly noted above

The other reason is cost- why fit an MCB to a board just coz you have given a price, that's like saying i've left you with 50m of cable coz I over estimated when you finish a rewire.

I fit blanks and point them to the customer as a bonus "look these parts (pointing to the blanks) are there incase you want to add something in later. I always like to fit consumer units with enough space for extras"

That way the customer is feeling fine and you have explained why the blanks are there.

I buy Hager din rail blanks as I don't like the cover mounting ones.

 

[somersetsparks]

I always remove any MCB's and keep them and then install blanks (preferably the dummy MCB ones). This way it doesn't confuse people and you don't have to write the MCB/Fuses deatils for the spare way on the test results. You can just write blank and put a line through it!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Because It's lazy, maybe rough wasn't the right word but I would say it is very poor practice. The breaker is serving no purpose and the average homeowner is an idiot. It may not be labelled but Joe average probably think's it is doing something

I'm so glad you pointed that out to me after all these years .......................

 

[Guest111]

I'm so glad you pointed that out to me after all these years .......................

Yeah Malc I used to assume they were all thick,made a nice surprise when occasionally one proved you wrong.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I ALWAYS remove and only for one reason... To stop silly DIYers taking a new circuit into a spare breaker.

Here's an example.

My consumer unit cupboard is rather dark... I know, I'll wire a light in there. That working on a fuseboard looks really easy after watching that spark. It's only a few wires it'll be fine.

Yep, until those few pieces of a 1.5mm scrap cable, ancient light and switch found in the garage end up in a 32A breaker.... One day... BOOM!!!!, neee naaaaa neeeee naaaaaa. Oh hello fireman Sam, not sure what that electrician did when he was here but my fuse board is on fire now, Plleeeeeeeeaaaaase Help????

Not sure about that one....if there's no spare breaker they'll just dob it in with the cooker circuit!

 

[sparky-s-w]

Because It's lazy, maybe rough wasn't the right word but I would say it is very poor practice. The breaker is serving no purpose and the average homeowner is an idiot. It may not be labelled but Joe average probably think's it is doing something

sorry but i disagree, lazy? which is easyer/quicker connecting a breaker or slaping in a blank, "Very bad practice"? why?

 

[Jimmy Boy]

sorry but i disagree, lazy? which is easyer/quicker connecting a breaker or slaping in a blank, "Very bad practice"? why?

IMHO it would only amount to 'Bad practice' if a copy of circuit details were not left adjacent to board highlighting the fact that (X) breaker was a unused way, this was my whole point of my post regarding regs for circuit identification ( Which someone got arsy with me for ), it's important that an unskilled person knows what to switch of or reset
J

 

[Tonkatoy27]

On Hagar boards the edges of the cover surrounding the MCB's is shaped so it does not accept clip in blanks. I'd like to think they've designed it this way because they too fear the dangers of a clips in 'falling out'. Personally, I think it's so you are forced into buying Hagar parts. Although I agree in using din rail/bus bar mounted blanks where possible I don't like the Hagar design as when you come across a board with a bloody great hole in the front of it you can't fill it unless you've got Hagar blanks on board, unlikley if you don't fit them yourself.
I personally use Starbreaker boards with insulated bus bars which negates the needs for a return to 'having to nip the plasitc off' or 'a blue clip'

 

[oldtimer]

Guys I think you have to look at the history of this go back 25 years and a wylex push button MCB was £6 thats £20 in todays prices so a 8 way consumer unit was about £90 then hence when you go to an old job there is either a blank or the old 3036 fuse fitted as the spare way or on a site to keep costs down they fitted blanks now fast forward today and you get a fully fitted board for £70 and as you can see in a previous post in a rental property I fit the din rail "dummy" MCB which looks the part plus does not confuse anybody if I am fitting one in a private property I do the same but I leave the spare breakers as I see this as good customer service and they are happy that you leave them. Also when I upgrade an intruder alarm I always leave the engineers code( and manual) at factory setting and inform the customer that i do this because a lot of alarm companies put their code in so when there is a problem they want £130 callout to come and reset the low battery fault plus they charge £90 plus vat of course for a new battery in this case the customer appreciates this and I get return work so as the Merkat would say Simple

 

[Tonkatoy27]

IMHO it would only amount to 'Bad practice' if a copy of circuit details were not left adjacent to board highlighting the fact that (X) breaker was a unused way, this was my whole point of my post regarding regs for circuit identification ( Which someone got arsy with me for ), it's important that an unskilled person knows what to switch of or reset
J

At the risk of being contriversial, I think this reg is a big waste of the customers money. To be proffesional it means that after the job, printing out the test result sheet, putting in a plastic envelope or laminating it and then returning to the property to fix it next to the CU. This extra labour has to be allowed for in the customers invoice unless you work for free and the customer couldn't reall care less. It's only usefull if it's commercial where other sparkies are likely to work on the installation.
I did it on my first ELECSA assessment but none since, no-ones mentioned it.
The customer knows whats what from the clear labelling on the CU
All my own opinion of course.

 

[sparky-s-w]

IMHO it would only amount to 'Bad practice' if a copy of circuit details were not left adjacent to board highlighting the fact that (X) breaker was a unused way, this was my whole point of my post regarding regs for circuit identification ( Which someone got arsy with me for ), it's important that an unskilled person knows what to switch of or reset
J

ok i understand the regs, but even without the all important chart, the customer will re-set the breaker that had tripped(would be identified anyway), and if anyone working on the board in the future couldnt identify a spare circuit then, well they souldnt even be there.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

It only takes 5 mins to copy across your data from the EIC to another chart, or you could just copy the cert test pages and leave them there,is anyone gonna die if you don't ? no of course not, the customer couldn't care less ? well perhaps they don't but thats no excuse for that little bit of extra effort is it ?
J

 

[Guest55]

I take them out and put decent blanks in, i only fit Hager boards so I can always get hold of good blanks. Personally I think It's rough to leave unused MCB's in. If your concerned about the customer having paid for them then give them to the customer instead of leaving them in the board.

So the customer can try and fit them himself at a later date , which is much much safer ???