discrepancy from a scam

[sedgy34]

so if your nic registered and you change a DB you have to do tests ze r1r2 on final circuits and zs,s etc put in the box wired by others
and
if your napit registered ive been told you do ze & zs,s on final circuits only as you havnt wired the property

so if someone wires there house DIY and they call you in to change the DB you change the DB and put in box Wired by others as you have to notify the DB change the installation gets a Part p certificate

your thoughts on this as my half day scam is getting closer and i want to put it in as a question!!

 

[Moses]

When you install the CU, you are only certifying the installation of the CU.

If there are and installation faults in the installation labelling, connections, routing, sizing etc, you put a disclaimer as system buried in the building fabric not inspected.

 

[Guest55]

well the notification will only include the cu done by the spark , not the rewire done by the diy'er.
so the diy'er wont be getting his own work notified by the back door.
is this what you mean ?

 

[sedgy34]

agreed but the house holder still gets a part p cert because of the DB change no oone is non the wiser so it just clarifies part p is taking the PEE

 

[Plonker 3]

The EIC has a box saying what part of the installation this certificate covers, so just write DB change only.

When I register jobs with Elecsa they ask for the certificate number. So there should be a audit trail for the registation and the Part P notification.

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[Guest55]

Cant wait for the part p changes that will come next year.
The scams membership numbers will fall like a house of cards in a tornado lol.

 

[sedgy34]

im thinking though the house holder DIY er still gets a part p cert

 

[Plonker 3]

Yes they will. But if problems arise later on and they follow it up and realise that the Part P cert doesn't cover what Mr DIY then there could be repercussions to follow.

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[MKS]

Biff, what's changing?

Usually a EICR should be carried out before consumer unit change, more often than not, missed! Just saying lol

 

[Octopus]

im thinking though the house holder DIY er still gets a part p cert

Only stating what the installer did. If its a CU change it says that, if its a rewire, it says that.....

 

[sedgy34]

Yes they will. But if problems arise later on and they follow it up and realise that the Part P cert doesn't cover what Mr DIY then there could be repercussions to follow.

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in the scenario mentioned it would take years for anyone to notice, by this time whos bothered!!!!

 

[Plonker 3]

Why would it. Yes here is the Part P certificate and here is the EIC that covers the works done. If it isn't notified on the cert then it isn't covered.

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[Guest55]

Biff, what's changing?

Usually a EICR should be carried out before consumer unit change, more often than not, missed! Just saying lol

Not confirmed yet but have been proposed.....

Fewer types of job that need to be notified.
Cheaper council fees for sparks that arent in a scheme but are qualified.
Third party inspections / certs for diy work.

Will be decided at the end of year.

 

[Plonker 3]

Sounds like the changes may affect membership to schemes badly. So somehow don't think they will go ahead.

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[MKS]

I will be following that with interest! Cheers Biff

 

[Octopus]

Not confirmed yet but have been proposed.....


Will be decided at the end of year.

According to who. Turkeys don't normally vote for christmas!!

 

[Guest55]

Sounds like the changes may affect membership to schemes badly. So somehow don't think they will go ahead.

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They will to stop the current set-up from collapsing completely.
Scheme membership numbers have been dropping anyway since their peak in 2008 , and that is a fact my friend.

 

[sedgy34]

Not confirmed yet but have been proposed.....

Fewer types of job that need to be notified.
Cheaper council fees for sparks that arent in a scheme but are qualified.
Third party inspections / certs for diy work.

Will be decided at the end of year.

think they should keep the good sparkys exempt from this scheme!!

 

[Plonker 3]

They will to stop the current set-up from collapsing completely.
Scheme membership numbers have been dropping anyway since their peak in 2008 , and that is a fact my friend.

Hardly surprising they are dropping with nothing being done to enforce it.

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[Guest55]

According to who. Turkeys don't normally vote for christmas!!

According to some of the big boys on the IET forum who were privvy to the consultations earlier this year.
The info seemed fairly reliable , as these guys have no personal interests in the domestic sector.

 

[Des 56]

What's changing

I suspect Biff is dead right

There is likely to be a step backwards towards common sense

The red tape may be altered in favour of anyone to install
The red tape stays in the sense that the notifiable jobs remain,maybe reduced scope,they are hoping that compliance will improve if the fees are lower and people actually hear that part p exists

The labc function will likely be done by registered sparks who hang on to the dream of it actually working,hoping theymake a few bob out of it (a far fetched possibility)but sparks tend to be mugs for many these days

 

[Plonker 3]

think they should keep the good sparkys exempt from this scheme!!

We managed since eletricity was first invented withour it, but for some reason now it is required.

It should just be for folk with no qualifications like kitchen fitters, plumbers etc.

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[Guest55]

As Des suggests , de-regulation might not help domestic sparks as such , but might help kick start the whole economy with
more people doing building and renovation works with less red tape to worry about.
This is the thinking behind the changes in my opinion.

 

[Silly Sausage]

This made me laugh...number of votes
Protect You and Your Family - Keep Part P (Building Regulations) - e-petitions

 

[trev]

Was one of those 569 yours Archy?

 

[sedgy34]

just remember the scams proffiteering are from the good sparks also they wont want to allow this as the income will drop and they will have to chip in for there golfing days out.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Not when Manchester wanted to charge me near that amount for a CU change notification!


Here are the proposed changes...
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/2077837.pdf

 

[Guest55]

just remember the scams proffiteering are from the good sparks also they wont want to allow this as the income will drop and they will have to chip in for there golfing days out.

The NIC and ECS are only one voice in the industry and its plain to all that their financially dependant on things staying the same.
They wont get things all their own way.

 

[Guest55]

Not when Manchester wanted to charge me near that amount for a CU change notification!


Here are the proposed changes...
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/2077837.pdf

Yep , read that couple of months back , quite interesting but things arent set in stone yet.

 

[Plonker 3]

Not when Manchester wanted to charge me near that amount for a CU change notification!


Here are the proposed changes...
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/2077837.pdf

Having just briefly looked at thay document it looks loke Part P was introduced to make us work to the relevant BS7671. Why not just make that a legal document and do away with alk the beuacracy.

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[Des 56]

This made me laugh...number of votes
Protect You and Your Family - Keep Part P (Building Regulations) - e-petitions

I didn't realise that your link was to a petition set up by the Esc
They were certainly jabbed in the eye by the response to that little caper

 

[Guest55]

I didn't realise that your link was to a petition set up by the Esc
They were certainly jabbed in the eye by the response to that little caper

Yeah 500 pro-voters out of a public of 60 million.
not a great turn out was it lol.

 

[Johnny-G]

agreed but the house holder still gets a part p cert because of the DB change no oone is non the wiser so it just clarifies part p is taking the PEE

Not really.
The certificate the householder receives from the electrician's scheme provider quotes the certificate no. of that issued by the electrician which states the extent of the work carried out so it just clarifies the work the signatory electrician has done.

 

[Guitarist]

agreed but the house holder still gets a part p cert because of the DB change no oone is non the wiser so it just clarifies part p is taking the PEE

I think you are absolutely right. We know that the EIC covers the CU change only, but joe public gets a piece of paper to wave around and tells everyone "I have an installation certificate so all is well". LBC look at said piece of paper and say "Ooo, an installation certificate. That means all is well."
I was speaking to a plumber the other day who was in a property doing some pipework in the loft while a sparky was changing the CU. New board was fitted and all tests came back hunky-dory, but just before sparky left the plumber noticed a mass of cables in the loft which he didn't like the look of. He called the sparky up and it transpired that there were several connections up there in terminal block with several bare line conductors!
You can't blame the householder though for thinking that an EIC means that the whole installation is tested and safe, when the LBC often don't know the first thing about electrics and certification.

 

[Plonker 3]

But there is only so much we can do. We all know a MOT means nothing in the safety of the car. As long as we fill in the relevant certificates correctly and you keep a copy of them then you have carried out as much legally as you can. It is upto the customer to read and understand the certiifcate, or at least contact the contractor to get any clarification if theu do not understand it properly.

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[sedgy34]

I think you are absolutely right. We know that the EIC covers the CU change only, but joe public gets a piece of paper to wave around and tells everyone "I have an installation certificate so all is well". LBC look at said piece of paper and say "Ooo, an installation certificate. That means all is well."
I was speaking to a plumber the other day who was in a property doing some pipework in the loft while a sparky was changing the CU. New board was fitted and all tests came back hunky-dory, but just before sparky left the plumber noticed a mass of cables in the loft which he didn't like the look of. He called the sparky up and it transpired that there were several connections up there in terminal block with several bare line conductors!
You can't blame the householder though for thinking that an EIC means that the whole installation is tested and safe, when the LBC often don't know the first thing about electrics and certification.

Guitarist your playing my tune!!! This is exactly what I'm on about

 

[Tonkatoy27]

Both the EIC and the Part P cert will say upgrade or replacement of CU on them so it should be pretty plain to anyone who looks closley what work has been done by a competant person. The confusion comes when the house is sold or whatever and the householder is waving a bit of paper saying everything is covered and no-one looks closer and takes their word for it.
I recently got asked to fit a new twin socket in a friends garage the day after they moved in. She is a conveyancer so is pretty switched on with house sales. She got told that the house had all been tested and passed with regards to electrical safety.
I found the whole house was cross polarity due to a plate screw nicking the live in a socket. No RCD or MCB tripping as when the CU had been changed the main earth had been lost back down the wall cavity!!!!!! Don't ask me how it caused the cross polarity but all was ok once I'd installed a new 16mm main earth and sorted the socket abortion. It's plain there is loads of DIY intalled. The part p cert turned out to be for some heating controls in the kitchen.........

 

[jumpin jax]

Having just briefly looked at thay document it looks loke Part P was introduced to make us work to the relevant BS7671. Why not just make that a legal document and do away with alk the beuacracy.

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Test certificates and testing has been in since elektrickery was invented or near as, how many sparks before Part P actually tested or owned a meter AND supplied a certificate?

 

[Guitarist]

Test certificates and testing has been in since elektrickery was invented or near as, how many sparks before Part P actually tested or owned a meter AND supplied a certificate?

To be perfectly honest with you, I have rarely come across a certificate since the introduction of Part P.... Went to a customer 2 weeks ago.

Me : Before I start, can I see the certificate for the consumer unit that was installed last year please.
Customer : Oh that. Well, he said I could have one, but at the end of the job he said he'd post it. I never received one. I don't think he really knew what he was doing!

 

[Guitarist]

Both the EIC and the Part P cert will say upgrade or replacement of CU on them so it should be pretty plain to anyone who looks closley what work has been done by a competant person. The confusion comes when the house is sold or whatever and the householder is waving a bit of paper saying everything is covered and no-one looks closer and takes their word for it.
I recently got asked to fit a new twin socket in a friends garage the day after they moved in. She is a conveyancer so is pretty switched on with house sales. She got told that the house had all been tested and passed with regards to electrical safety.
I found the whole house was cross polarity due to a plate screw nicking the live in a socket. No RCD or MCB tripping as when the CU had been changed the main earth had been lost back down the wall cavity!!!!!! Don't ask me how it caused the cross polarity but all was ok once I'd installed a new 16mm main earth and sorted the socket abortion. It's plain there is loads of DIY intalled. The part p cert turned out to be for some heating controls in the kitchen.........

You've hit the nail on the head. To a non-electrician, any piece of paper with electrical readings on it is a certificate which says everything is tested and safe. We need some serious education for our public and council officials!

 

[sedgy34]

Agreed there is no one educating the general public about the part p and the only people coining it in is the scams and labc if you put in £50 on your price towards scam registration labc notifiable works etc you don't get the work Cyril down the pub takes over and his payment peanuts for a few pints of guinness