Double socket problems!!

[rennie158]

I’m changing my double socket and upon removing the old one, I seem to have 3 separate wires coming in to it. So essentially I have 3 live wires, 3 neutral wires, and 3 earth wires. How do I connect the earth wires to the new socket as it only has 2 terminals? I’m fitting new chrome black sockets so want to be careful!!

 

[rsgaz]

only has 2 terminals?

Can you show us a picture of the back of the new socket?

 

[rennie158]

 

[rennie158]

You can see the 3 wires in the 2nd picture, just didn’t know how they connect to the socket

 

[Dustydazzler]

Looks like you have the original ring (reds and blacks) then someone spurred off the ring in new cable (brown and blue)

Reds/Brown
Black/Blue
Green Yellows

 

[rennie158]

Looks like you have the original ring (reds and blacks) then someone spurred off the ring in new cable (brown and blue)

Reds/Brown
Black/Blue
Green Yellows

I think that’s the case. What do I need to do now then??

 

[westward10]

You can either put the earths into one terminal or two in one and one in the other it doesn't matter as the terminals are connected together.

 

[brianmoooore]

That wiring (the red and black bit) is over 50 years old. Might be time to think about replacing the bits of the installation not on show, rather than just the decorative bits.

 

[DPG]

That wiring (the red and black bit) is over 50 years old. Might be time to think about replacing the bits of the installation not on show, rather than just the decorative bits.

A rewire seems extreme. No reason why that black and red won't pass IR tests.

 

[brianmoooore]

A rewire seems extreme. No reason why that black and red won't pass IR tests.

Not as such, but the number of points fitted in the '60s falls well short of what most people require today, and I'd almost guarantee that further inspection would unearth some very dubious modifications and additions.

 

[123]

Not as such, but the number of points fitted in the '60s falls well short of what most people require today, and I'd almost guarantee that further inspection would unearth some very dubious modifications and additions.

Why limit that to the 60's? Could easily apply to late 80's and early 90's and well beyond. With modern builds it seems spec is low to hit for extra's left right and centre. Was on one today, 4 bed done around 2012, master bedroom and the big bedrooms 2 double sockets per room, small bedroom had 1. At least it was double sockets mind.

@westward10 may appreciate this...SHOCKING

 

[brianmoooore]

Parker Morris report in 1961 set the minimum number of sockets, etc in a dwelling. Not sure if it's been superseded.

 

[littlespark]

Parker Morris report in 1961 set the minimum number of sockets, etc in a dwelling. Not sure if it's been superseded.

My childhood home had two singles in each bedroom, opposite diagonal corners. Nothing on landing. Single in hallway downstairs.. I think only 4 singles in living room, even behind the telly and I really can’t remember the original kitchen.

Kept Woolies going in selling 4 way adaptors in those days.

 

[pirate]

Luxury! I currently have 2 singles in each bedroom, a single in the hall, and 2 doubles and a single in the living/dining room.
There are some old heater outlets i could repurpose, but adding new sockets would be a tedious and messy affair as all the internal walls are brick. My PC setup has a a 6-way trailing socket, 2 4-ways and a 5-way, with only a couple spare, all hanging off a single wall socket...I really need to sort this.

 

[littlespark]

Oh there’s a lot more now, with changing singles to doubles, repurposing unused storage heater points, new kitchen and having an electrician as a son…

 

[Jenna T]

Ok I’m new to this so please don’t anyone listen to my advice here but if you might humour me a while can I take an opportunity to check my learning on this basic post please? I’m hoping someone might be kind enough to confirm (and also I need to make several posts before I can apply to join the trainee forum)? Thanks in advance for any help
put the;
2red together with the brown conductors into L,
2black together with blue conductors into N
3 cpc (green/yellow) conductors in any combination (1in1,2in other or whatever) into any of the 2 earth terminals

 

[DPG]

Ok I’m new to this so please don’t anyone listen to my advice here but if you might humour me a while can I take an opportunity to check my learning on this basic post please? I’m hoping someone might be kind enough to confirm (and also I need to make several posts before I can apply to join the trainee forum)? Thanks in advance for any help
put the;
2red together with the brown conductors into L,
2black together with blue conductors into N
3 cpc (green/yellow) conductors in any combination (1in1,2in other or whatever) into any of the 2 earth terminals

Yes indeed.

 

[Jenna T]

Thanks DPG!

Yes indeed.

 

[brianmoooore]

My childhood home had two singles in each bedroom, opposite diagonal corners. Nothing on landing. Single in hallway downstairs.. I think only 4 singles in living room, even behind the telly and I really can’t remember the original kitchen.

Kept Woolies going in selling 4 way adaptors in those days.

Luxury! I currently have 2 singles in each bedroom, a single in the hall, and 2 doubles and a single in the living/dining room.
There are some old heater outlets i could repurpose, but adding new sockets would be a tedious and messy affair as all the internal walls are brick. My PC setup has a a 6-way trailing socket, 2 4-ways and a 5-way, with only a couple spare, all hanging off a single wall socket...I really need to sort this.

At the risk of turning this into a remake of a Monty Python sketch, I don't think there was any room in my childhood home that had more than a single 13A socket, or any room, except the bathroom, without one.
Wife's childhood home was even worse. Upstairs just had a single 13A socket on the landing, and none at all in the bedrooms. As an electrician in my early 20s, it was while fitting extra sockets upstairs, and an electric shower, that I was shadowed by the 17 year old daughter of the house...

 

[Dave OCD]

These days I only get old ladies following me around.

 

[brianmoooore]

The "17 year old" is still hanging around, 47 years later, although in an evil mood tonight.

 

[brianmoooore]

in an evil mood tonight.

Found out why! The Dunelm website is having problems and won't accept her order.

 

[UNG]

That wiring (the red and black bit) is over 50 years old. Might be time to think about replacing the bits of the installation not on show, rather than just the decorative bits.

Not sure how you can date that installation at over 50 years old from that picture alone

 

[pc1966]

Not sure how you can date that installation at over 50 years old from that picture alone

True, might have been red & black up to 2004/6

However, it seems to have stranded conductors so I guess it is imperial size cable and not the 2.5mm T&E?

 

[UNG]

True, might have been red & black up to 2004/6

However, it seems to have stranded conductors so I guess it is imperial size cable and not the 2.5mm T&E?

2.5mm² stranded T&E was manufactured until at least 1983/4 by AEI and was actually specified by some customers in their tender documents at the time

 

[brianmoooore]

Most of the imperial cable I've dealt with has been tinned. Did this apply right up to the end of production?
The cable in the pic isn't tinned.
Did the stranded 2.5 have a stranded cpc as well?

 

[Mike Johnson]

The house I grew up in had round pin Bakelite sockets but then we where lucky.

 

[brianmoooore]

The house I grew up in had round pin Bakelite sockets but then we where lucky.

So had mine, up until the age of eleven, powered by a Lister start o matric, of all of 2.5kVa.

 

[cloverman]

So had mine, up until the age of eleven, powered by a Lister start o matric, of all of 2.5kVa.

You guys had a life of luxury, The house I grew up in, we had a couple of tilly lamps.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The house of my first memory was in Highbury and had gas mantles we rented the ground floor off two old ladies that lived upstairs and we where allowed to use the bathroom once a month, our loo was outside with the mangle and my mother would wash my brother and I in the wood fired copper in the scullery which was our kitchen, my first school was Drayton Park, not far from Arsenal, this was in Melgand Road just up from the library in Holloway Road.

 

[UNG]

Just found this Datasheet

On page 3 it shows *H6242YST 2 x 2.5 Nominal stranding of conductor 7 / 0.67 & CPC 1 / 1.38 (1.5mm²)

So stranded 2.5 is still manufactured and the sheet also shows stranded 1.5

 

[brianmoooore]

So stranded 2.5 is still manufactured and the sheet also shows stranded 1.5

But with a solid cpc.

 

[Mike Johnson]

But with a solid cpc.

Of a totally different size to the phase and neutral?

 

[pc1966]

Just found this Datasheet

On page 3 it shows *H6242YST 2 x 2.5 Nominal stranding of conductor 7 / 0.67 & CPC 1 / 1.38 (1.5mm²)

So stranded 2.5 is still manufactured and the sheet also shows stranded 1.5

Interesting, has anyone seen it stocked though?

I can see some advantages to stranded 2.5mm as more flexible so easier for pulling though conduit, etc, but that is not really done often.

 

[UNG]

Of a totally different size to the phase and neutral?

Like all T&E then

 

[westward10]

Like all T&E then

Nearly all.

 

[brianmoooore]

But with a solid cpc.

Unlike the cable in the OP pic, which appear to have a stranded cpc.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Just found this Datasheet

On page 3 it shows *H6242YST 2 x 2.5 Nominal stranding of conductor 7 / 0.67 & CPC 1 / 1.38 (1.5mm²)

So stranded 2.5 is still manufactured and the sheet also shows stranded 1.5

I have not seen sigle strand 2.5 outside T&E it all seems to be multi strand in Europe, stocked by TLC in the UK.

 

[pc1966]

I have not seen sigle strand 2.5 outside T&E it all seems to be multi strand in Europe, stocked by TLC in the UK.

Conduit cable certainly is usually stranded in 1.5mm & 2.5mm where T&E is single.

I don't see stranded T&E on TLC site?

EDIT: For 1.5mm/2,5mm as bigger is usually stranded

 

[UNG]

Conduit cable certainly is usually stranded in 1.5mm & 2.5mm where T&E is single.

I don't see stranded T&E on TLC site?

Only found it on the Check Every Figure site

 

[littlespark]

Conduit cable certainly is usually stranded in 1.5mm & 2.5mm where T&E is single.

I don't see stranded T&E on TLC site?

I take it you mean "where T&E is solid"

 

[pc1966]

Only found it on the Check Every Figure site

Got any link to that? A search shows all sort of unrelated stuff.

 

[pc1966]

I take it you mean "where T&E is solid"

Yes!

Though I am sure that somewhere, someone, will have linked L+N+CPC in to a single conductor...

 

[littlespark]

Got any link to that? A search shows all sort of unrelated stuff.

and i think he means City Electrical Factors... not Check Every Figure...

A slight on CEF's ability to change prices frequently

 

[pc1966]

and i think he means City Electrical Factors... not Check Every Figure...

A slight on CEF's ability to change prices frequently

Ah yes, and the "sort by price" option that disappears if you are logged in?

 

[westward10]

For some reason I have seen a lot of stranded 2.5 T&E in schools new and old colours the cpc is always solid.

 

[nicebutdim]

I have not seen sigle strand 2.5 outside T&E it all seems to be multi strand in Europe, stocked by TLC in the UK.

Isn't 2.5mm2 NYY-J supplied as sold core across Europe?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Stranded 2.5 with stranded cpc

 

[brianmoooore]

There's nothing in that vid. that says whether it's metric or imperial.