EICR On small industrial unit

[shanky887614]

Well I did my time years ago at Kier Sheffield, mainly domestic (decent homes scheme house bashing), but also worked on fire alarms, door entry systems etc. We did some small to medium commercial stuff which is my experience of 3 phase.

Generally it was new build so no existing older installs seen. Judging by my MISTAKEN initial post in this thread you can see I haven't had any experience with Industrial installs. Anyway a few of my mentors on commercial jobs ('experienced' time served sparks) would always suggest 3 pole mcb's for safer isolation on 3 phase systems. Their words repeated by me. Never seen a switch fuse feed a final circuit directly, only to feed sub boards generally from a bus bar chamber.

As always in this game I'm still learning, I have no desire to do Industrial and only stick to light modern commercial and domestic. I guess due to larger in-rush currents and high kilowatt machinery mcb's aren't practical compared to BS 88 fuses (etc). Basically what Alanl said in #15.

yeah we had to reconnect, test and comission a boiler house before.

because of the way the panels are we were getting readings too high for 60898 breakers so it went on test sheet as recommended swapping to bs88 (was the overloads causing it because of the dol starters)

 

[ipf]

yeah we had to reconnect, test and comission a boiler house before.

because of the way the panels are we were getting readings too high for 60898 breakers so it went on test sheet as recommended swapping to bs88 (was the overloads causing it because of the dol starters)

I'm getting lost again, here.....what and where did you test?

 

[davesparks]

yeah we had to reconnect, test and comission a boiler house before.

because of the way the panels are we were getting readings too high for 60898 breakers so it went on test sheet as recommended swapping to bs88 (was the overloads causing it because of the dol starters)

Something smells a bit fishy here, how were the overloads having an impact on the supply MCBs ?
And why are you using 60898 (domestic) MCBs for a boiler house? Should they not be 60947s

 

[shanky887614]

Something smells a bit fishy here, how were the overloads having an impact on the supply MCBs ?
And why are you using 60898 (domestic) MCBs for a boiler house? Should they not be 60947s

the overloads were after the mcb's in the panel then out to the triacs then boilers i didnt check the breaker type i posted 60898's simply so you guys knew they were breakers

 

[ipf]

Something smells a bit fishy here, how were the overloads having an impact on the supply MCBs ?
And why are you using 60898 (domestic) MCBs for a boiler house? Should they not be 60947s

Why? How many 'd' type TP 60898 breakers, for example, have you seen in a house?

 

[davesparks]

Why? How many 'd' type TP breakers have you seen in a house?

What on earth has that got to do with it? Any TP d type breaker you buy will be built to 60947, but will also, almost inherently, comply with 60898.
The point is that a breaker which complies with only 60898 is only intended for domestic use whereas a breaker built to both standards or just 60947 is suitable for all.

 

[ipf]

What on earth has that got to do with it? Any TP d type breaker you buy will be built to 60947, but will also, almost inherently, comply with 60898.
The point is that a breaker which complies with only 60898 is only intended for domestic use whereas a breaker built to both standards or just 60947 is suitable for all.

I would imagine that in a boiler house control panel they would have been built to spec. with 60898 labelled.

 

[Andy78]

What on earth has that got to do with it? Any TP d type breaker you buy will be built to 60947, but will also, almost inherently, comply with 60898.
The point is that a breaker which complies with only 60898 is only intended for domestic use whereas a breaker built to both standards or just 60947 is suitable for all.

Is it always as clear cut as that Dave ? I have in front of me for example a 40A TP MCB, C curve, 10kA rated that states BS EN 60898 only. Would that have been produced with domestic application in mind ?

Not trying to be tetchy or argumentative mind, just expanding my knowledge

 

[shanky887614]

Is it always as clear cut as that Dave ? I have in front of me for example a 40A TP MCB, C curve, 10kA rated that states BS EN 60898 only. Would that have been produced with domestic application in mind ?

Not trying to be tetchy or argumentative mind, just expanding my knowledge

why does it need to comply if 10ka rating is satisfactory why do you need 15ka mcbs

 

[davesparks]

Is it always as clear cut as that Dave ? I have in front of me for example a 40A TP MCB, C curve, 10kA rated that states BS EN 60898 only. Would that have been produced with domestic application in mind ?

Not trying to be tetchy or argumentative mind, just expanding my knowledge

BS EN 60898 'low voltage circuit breakers for use in household and similar applications'

BS EN 60947-2 'low voltage circuit breakers for use in industrial and similar installations'

So it all depends on how you define 'similar installations' , I think small commercial offices/shops would be, but what else?

 

[davesparks]

why does it need to comply if 10ka rating is satisfactory why do you need 15ka mcbs

What on earth are you gibbering on about this time?

 

[shanky887614]

BS EN 60898 'low voltage circuit breakers for use in household and similar applications'

BS EN 60947-2 'low voltage circuit breakers for use in industrial and similar installations'

So it all depends on how you define 'similar installations' , I think small commercial offices/shops would be, but what else?

in this paticular case bs60898 breakers are adequite because of the enviroment conditions and measured test results (its located in a school)

 

[Andy78]

BS EN 60898 'low voltage circuit breakers for use in household and similar applications'

BS EN 60947-2 'low voltage circuit breakers for use in industrial and similar installations'

So it all depends on how you define 'similar installations' , I think small commercial offices/shops would be, but what else?

Cheers for that Dave. First time I have heard 60898 referred to as "household" , that's what confused me.
I found this download for some informative bedtime reading ...

http://www.beama.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/6BCA1329-8A17-4C89-B86A629F18D74BB8

 

[shanky887614]

Cheers for that Dave. First time I have heard 60898 referred to as "household" , that's what confused me.
I found this download for some informative bedtime reading ...

http://www.beama.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/6BCA1329-8A17-4C89-B86A629F18D74BB8

here is some info from schneider

blog.schneider-electric.com/energy-...6/iec-60898-1-iec-60947-2-tale-two-standards/

 

[Andy78]

Cheers shanky

 

[shanky887614]

Cheers shanky

bassically 60947-2 is a higher spec version with stricter requirements there is a table and explaination between the two above.

a 60947 can be used in place of a 60898 but a 60898 cant always be used instead of a 60947

 

[ipf]

Cheers for that Dave. First time I have heard 60898 referred to as "household" , that's what confused me.
I found this download for some informative bedtime reading ...

http://www.beama.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/6BCA1329-8A17-4C89-B86A629F18D74BB8

Because it's the bs for all our MCB's. But look at the price difference between the two specifications.

 

[davesparks]

in this paticular case bs60898 breakers are adequite because of the enviroment conditions and measured test results (its located in a school)

]

You're lucky, all the school/commercial boiler rooms I get to work in around here are grotty horrible places, damp and stinking of oil. You'd assume the higher pollution rating to be specified for them.

 

[shanky887614]

You're lucky, all the school/commercial boiler rooms I get to work in around here are grotty horrible places, damp and stinking of oil. You'd assume the higher pollution rating to be specified for them.

nah the worst plant room ive worked in was city hospital in birmingham.

national grid officess plantrooms are defiantly the cleanest ive been to.

the breakers are usuallu dual standard but usually the older plant we work on is bs88 fuses

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Great thread chaps, lots of really juicy meaty stuff in here to rip off the bones.

next beer