EICR On small industrial unit

[uksparks]

Hi,

A friend of mine owns a small unit, i have the papers from when it was last tested 10 years ago and also 15 years ago, but a lot of its been pulled out since then.

Ill be honest, I do not generally do periodics on this type of building and would like a bit of guidance.

I know how to test the circuits etc, its not that, thats the issue, its more with the BS number and what other peoples thoughts are for the setup where the board is really.

Take a look at the photos and see what you think, its a courier business and they wash vans out the front and take extensions out, nothing is RCD protected, generally the condition looks ok having walked round it yesterday.

 

[Andy78]

BS3036 for all the fuse wire carriers
BS5419 for the main switch in the single phase board

The DB could ideally not do to be half in and out the ceiling but you have proved it is accessible. C3 for ease of access and working space for DB possibly.

I would C2 the lack of RCD on sockets used outside with water jets. A simple RCD socket installed for this use is an easy remedy.

I'm now going to sit back and wait for the inevitable argument about the dangers of asbestos flash pads... on which subject I have no opinion to offer ... lol ..

 

[uksparks]

Thanks Andy, I agree with your comments, yes the board and floor in the way has been there dined it was built. I said it would be nice to bung a nice shiny new board in but they didn't want it.

the rcd issue, I said I could swap them for protected ones.

the asbestos, I guess it's a C3.

 

[Andy78]

Thanks Andy, I agree with your comments, yes the board and floor in the way has been there dined it was built. I said it would be nice to bung a nice shiny new board in but they didn't want it.

the rcd issue, I said I could swap them for protected ones.

the asbestos, I guess it's a C3.

It's a nothing on your report.... You are reporting on the electrical safety of the installation and it's suitability for continued use. Any deterioration or defects can be brought into your report, but not the suitability of materials that have no mention in BS7671. You have to justify any code with a relevant regulation.

I do not know enough about asbestos to advise you any better than this..... The white asbestos flash pads in the main DB are, as I understand it, of a low risk but still "potentially" harmful.
You could put a note on your report to the effect that the client may want to carry out their own asbestos report .... merely as an arse covering operation for yourself mind you.

 

[kjgreen3]

Any 3 phase equipment fed off that Bill Board? If so each phase is individually fused which is a no-no. Will need changing so the phases on that circuit are linked i.e. 3-pole mcb.

 

[gnselectricals]

Any 3 phase equipment fed off that Bill Board? If so each phase is individually fused which is a no-no. Will need changing so the phases on that circuit are linked i.e. 3-pole mcb.

Which reg does that have to comply with then as I fitted a 3 phase ISO yesterday fitted with bs88 fuses which won't disconnect if one phase is lost.
Cheers

 

[ipf]

Any 3 phase equipment fed off that Bill Board? If so each phase is individually fused which is a no-no. Will need changing so the phases on that circuit are linked i.e. 3-pole mcb.

Where the heck do you get that one from?.........baffles me, at times.

 

[davesparks]

Any 3 phase equipment fed off that Bill Board? If so each phase is individually fused which is a no-no. Will need changing so the phases on that circuit are linked i.e. 3-pole mcb.

I call bovine excrement! Unless of course you can quote a law or regulation to support that theory.

 

[dingledong]

So a 3 phase appliance protected by 3 individual breakers , not a joined breaker is ok ? ? Or have I read it wrong

 

[infinity]

An incoming supply will have a fuse for each phase!

 

[dingledong]

But at the fuse board they are joined so if one trips it turns the whole machine of

 

[dingledong]

I know I am missing something sorry goodnight

 

[ipf]

But at the fuse board they are joined so if one trips it turns the whole machine of

I think I'm with Tony after that....I can see his point.

 

[kjgreen3]

Ok I always thought machinery, especially rotating (motors etc) should drop all three phases if one phase drops out (unless the machinery itself has this type of protection, eg. undervoltage trip).

This is to prevent harm to operators but mainly to protect the equipment itself. If this is so wrong how come 3-pole mcb's are interlinked?

Teach me people

 

[alanl]

You havent done much industrial work, so clearly havent seen that very many installs still have fuses for fault and overload protection.
Fuses are quite good at not tripping with short term overloads, so are still specified for some equipment where a circuit breaker may trip earlier, and / or cannot achieve the required Zs figures.

It isnt wrong to have 3 phase CB's interlinked, it's a good thing for isolation, but if they are not interlinked, at most it is only a C3 on an EICR.
Clearly some equipment calls for all phases to be isolated at the same time, so manufacturers rules should be followed too.

 

[davesparks]

Ok I always thought machinery, especially rotating (motors etc) should drop all three phases if one phase drops out (unless the machinery itself has this type of protection, eg. undervoltage trip).

This is to prevent harm to operators but mainly to protect the equipment itself. If this is so wrong how come 3-pole mcb's are interlinked?

Teach me people

The motor overload relay in the starter will handle that, the supply to the starter will be quite happy on fuses.

 

[Knobhead]

Any 3 phase equipment fed off that Bill Board? If so each phase is individually fused which is a no-no. Will need changing so the phases on that circuit are linked i.e. 3-pole mcb.

I’ll say it if no one else will, you’re talking complete and utter bolloX!!!!

 

[kjgreen3]

I’ll say it if no one else will, you’re talking complete and utter bolloX!!!!

Every day is a school day Tony

 

[ipf]

Every day is a school day Tony

Not trying to be condescending or anything but who has put such rubbish into your head ?

 

[kjgreen3]

Well I did my time years ago at Kier Sheffield, mainly domestic (decent homes scheme house bashing), but also worked on fire alarms, door entry systems etc. We did some small to medium commercial stuff which is my experience of 3 phase.

Generally it was new build so no existing older installs seen. Judging by my MISTAKEN initial post in this thread you can see I haven't had any experience with Industrial installs. Anyway a few of my mentors on commercial jobs ('experienced' time served sparks) would always suggest 3 pole mcb's for safer isolation on 3 phase systems. Their words repeated by me. Never seen a switch fuse feed a final circuit directly, only to feed sub boards generally from a bus bar chamber.

As always in this game I'm still learning, I have no desire to do Industrial and only stick to light modern commercial and domestic. I guess due to larger in-rush currents and high kilowatt machinery mcb's aren't practical compared to BS 88 fuses (etc). Basically what Alanl said in #15.