EICR Report Second Opinion/Explanation of Codes

[JamesWrite]

I have decided to move house and rent it out, I've just had an EICR report done by a local company and they've come back with a report I'd like advice on.

I'm not sure if anyone in here can help me decipher the report, or if it would be a case of getting another electrician out to re-do the test.

I've attached the full report but the major issues are:

C1 - No main earth
C2 - No bonding on gas
C2 - RCD has IP breach
C2 - Main tails undersized
C2 - DB has IP breach

I am a complete noob and have literally no idea about what any of this means, can anyone break it down in plain English and let me know if they are the correct codes and if £780 to do the repairs sounds accurate?

Many many thanks, James.
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Also just to add to this, it only took the guy about half an hour to do the report, it feels like he did it as quickly as possible and left but I might just be feeling a bit devastated about paying a grand for things I didn't even know needed doing.

Have lived here for 3 years now with no issue so it's a bit hard to take, but take it I will if it's all above board.

 

[Strima]

I would recommend you remove both yours and the electrical companies details from the report.

C1 - No main earth - But he has it listed as 10mm on page 2 of the report, I suspect he has been unable to locate the earth electrode so this should attract FI (further investigation).
C2 - No bonding on gas - Fair one.
C2 - RCD has IP breach - Without seeing it I can't comment.
C2 - Main tails undersized - Should be a minimum of 16mm for the 60 amp supply fuse listed.
C2 - DB has IP breach - Without seeing it I can't comment.

Does the quote include replacing the existing consumer unit?

 

[telectrix]

if the £780 includes a new CU (DB) with RCBOs, then it's not excessive. If not, it's a rip-off.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

He does say he can't find the electrode, but at the same time says the main earthing conductor connections and continuity are OK, and that the electrode connection is N/A. It can't be OK, not OK and not applicable at the same time.

BTW OP you might want to repost that report without the personal and company details.

 

[JamesWrite]

I would recommend you remove both yours and the electrical companies details from the report.

C1 - No main earth - But he has it listed as 10mm on page 2 of the report, I suspect he has been unable to locate the earth electrode so this should attract FI (further investigation).
C2 - No bonding on gas - Fair one.
C2 - RCD has IP breach - Without seeing it I can't comment.
C2 - Main tails undersized - Should be a minimum of 16mm for the 60 amp supply fuse listed.
C2 - DB has IP breach - Without seeing it I can't comment.

Does the quote include replacing the existing consumer unit?

Thanks for this. They haven't said, the guy who did the test finished, said okay I'm done and left and I got the report through via email with:

"Hi your report is attached , to remove the c2s which will also remove the item no. 6 and 7 also 780.00 inc vat".

It only took him about half an hour which I thought was pretty quick, I'd read online that it takes between 3 and 4 hours so was a bit shocked when he left.
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He does say he can't find the electrode, but at the same time says the main earthing conductor connections and continuity are OK, and that the electrode connection is N/A. It can't be OK, not OK and not applicable at the same time.

BTW OP you might want to repost that report without the personal and company details.

Yeah good point, that is weird. Not that I really understand any of it but that seems quite an obvious mistake.

Not much I can do though I'd imagine so I'll have to just bite the bullet and pay, I can't really afford it but will have to find a way!

Thanks for replying.
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He does say he can't find the electrode, but at the same time says the main earthing conductor connections and continuity are OK, and that the electrode connection is N/A. It can't be OK, not OK and not applicable at the same time.

BTW OP you might want to repost that report without the personal and company details.

Yeah good point, that is weird. Not that I really understand any of it but that seems quite an obvious mistake.

Not much I can do though I'd imagine so I'll have to just bite the bullet and pay, I can't really afford it but will have to find a way!

Thanks for replying.
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if the £780 includes a new CU (DB) with RCBOs, then it's not excessive. If not, it's a rip-off.

Thanks for this, gives me something to go back to them with.

If it turns out to be a rip off, would you recommend arguing the ---- with them or getting another spark in to get it sorted?

 

[telectrix]

it seems as though he's not including a new DB.if so, it's a rip off and you need to get another electrician to quote. a few respected members are in your area and would be happy to give you an honest quote.

 

[JBW175]

it screams of a lazy rushed report imo.

Can you post some photo's of your service head & consumer unit. might give us all a better idea.

 

[telectrix]

30 minutes to do a detailed EICR is scandalous. 3 hours is about right for a 6 circuit DB. how much did he charge for this rushed EICR?

 

[JamesWrite]

it screams of a lazy rushed report imo.

Can you post some photo's of your service head & consumer unit. might give us all a better idea.

This? Like I said mate, absolutely clueless over here so apologies!

 

[JBW175]

30 minutes to do a detailed EICR is scandalous. 3 hours is about right for a 6 circuit DB. how much did he charge for this rushed EICR?

Especially as they've referenced no reg numbers against any of the observations, given very little information and want to charge nearly £800 to carry out the remedial work...

Some people out there take the P**S.

I'd be calling someone else in to quote on the remedial work...

 

[JamesWrite]

Especially as they've referenced no reg numbers against any of the observations, given very little information and want to charge nearly £800 to carry out the remedial work...

Some people out there take the P**S.

I'd be calling someone else in to quote on the remedial work...

Yeah I've just checked and I messaged my girlfriend when he got here and when he left and he was here for bang on 45 mins.

Quite annoyed actually so I'm glad I posted it here.

I'll shop around for a cheaper option. Cheers for this.

 

[JBW175]

Yeah I've just checked and I messaged my girlfriend when he got here and when he left and he was here for bang on 45 mins.

Quite annoyed actually so I'm glad I posted it here.

I'll shop around for a cheaper option. Cheers for this.

Did he even bother to ask you if you knew where the earth rod was located?

 

[JamesWrite]

Did he even bother to ask you if you knew where the earth rod was located?

Nah. The only thing he asked me throughout the process was where the gas meter was.
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30 minutes to do a detailed EICR is scandalous. 3 hours is about right for a 6 circuit DB. how much did he charge for this rushed EICR?

I've just double checked and it was actually 45 minutes so my mistake there. But still.

They charged me £144 including VAT. It was the cheapest locally available but only by about £20 so I went with them, regretting it now like!
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it seems as though he's not including a new DB.if so, it's a rip off and you need to get another electrician to quote. a few respected members are in your area and would be happy to give you an honest quote.

I've asked about and have been told I'll need to do a further report before they can diagnose and fix the issues. Nightmare

if the £780 includes a new CU (DB) with RCBOs, then it's not excessive. If not, it's a rip-off.

Have just been in touch saying this is very expensive if it doesn't include a CU, and now it does include that.

Have also been in touch with other local companies who have said they'd need to re-do the test themselves before they could quote, so seems I'm stuck with this company as I can't really get out of it.

Feeling a bit better that it comes with the CU so will probably just bite the bullet and book it in.

Thanks for the replies btw, really helpful.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Nah. The only thing he asked me throughout the process was where the gas meter was.
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I've just double checked and it was actually 45 minutes so my mistake there. But still.

They charged me £144 including VAT. It was the cheapest locally available but only by about £20 so I went with them, regretting it now like!
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I've asked about and have been told I'll need to do a further report before they can diagnose and fix the issues. Nightmare


Have just been in touch saying this is very expensive if it doesn't include a CU, and now it does include that.

Have also been in touch with other local companies who have said they'd need to re-do the test themselves before they could quote, so seems I'm stuck with this company as I can't really get out of it.

Feeling a bit better that it comes with the CU so will probably just bite the bullet and book it in.

Thanks for the replies btw, really helpful.

45 minutes to carry out an EICR is absolutely appalling James. I'm a firm believer in not bad mouthing electricians when we get threads like this, but I cannot think of any possible reasons why 45 minutes could ever be acceptable. The quickest I have ever carried out a report was on a really small one bed flat, it took 2 hours. How much did the report cost?

I realise you feel 'stuck' with these electricians but you are not. Pay for another report by another company, ask them before hand roughly how long it will take, ask them exactly what they will be doing during the report. I would be completely happy explaining the procedure, in fact that is what should happen anyway as a matter of course before a report is carried out.

If you just want a bit of paper saying 'pass' and are not worried about safety then stay with the electrician you have used who will very likely do a very poor and lazy job of the remedial work whilst possibly leaving many other dangerous bits as you haven't actually had a report carried out, just a cursory glance. If you actually want the flat to be safe for your tenants then pay the £200 for another report from another electrician.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Mr Hippy Dad has nailed it there. I wouldn’t use them to do the remedials, 45 Minutes for a EICR is a Joke, I couldn’t even locate all circuits, functional tests and fill out the cert in that time. How many circuits? Got a pic of the board please?

 

[JamesWrite]

Mr Hippy Dad has nailed it there. I wouldn’t use them to do the remedials, 45 Minutes for a EICR is a Joke, I couldn’t even locate all circuits, functional tests and fill out the cert in that time. How many circuits? Got a pic of the board please?

Yeah I don't like having the mick taken like and fear they won't be able to do the job to a high standard. I asked if their quote includes a replacement consumer unit and they've said it does, but they didn't mention that before I asked so I'm a bit suspicious as you can imagine being such a beginner!
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45 minutes to carry out an EICR is absolutely appalling James. I'm a firm believer in not bad mouthing electricians when we get threads like this, but I cannot think of any possible reasons why 45 minutes could ever be acceptable. The quickest I have ever carried out a report was on a really small one bed flat, it took 2 hours. How much did the report cost?

I realise you feel 'stuck' with these electricians but you are not. Pay for another report by another company, ask them before hand roughly how long it will take, ask them exactly what they will be doing during the report. I would be completely happy explaining the procedure, in fact that is what should happen anyway as a matter of course before a report is carried out.

If you just want a bit of paper saying 'pass' and are not worried about safety then stay with the electrician you have used who will very likely do a very poor and lazy job of the remedial work whilst possibly leaving many other dangerous bits as you haven't actually had a report carried out, just a cursory glance. If you actually want the flat to be safe for your tenants then pay the £200 for another report from another electrician.

Hi mate, thanks for this. The report cost me £144 including VAT, and I live in a 2-bed terraced bungalow. It's not the biggest like but I'm assuming it's larger than the flat you mentioned.

I definitely don't want it left in an unsafe position, but I also can't afford another test for it to potentially be a similar outcome in terms of cost. I've been in touch with a few other local electricians and have one or two having a look for me, so hopefully I can get it sorted without absolutely bankrupting myself!

Thanks for the reply though, I'll be sure to keep the thread updated. You're a friendly and helpful bunch in this forum!

 

[Craighrvy]

EICR should take an absolute minimum of 3 hours. I would complain to the company, there's no way he checked the entire installation in that amount of time.
As for the price, sounds excessive to me.
Get them back to do a proper inspection, actually show you what needs doing and explain why, that's their duty to do that. And then give the repair work to another company.
Sounds like they don't want the work and are over pricing it to me.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

The report is no longer visible but I could have sworn it showed BS3036 OCPD? So our man has invented... The Rewireable Circuit Breaker.

And what of that other CU or switchfuse above the RCD, that might be a 1-way Wylex from which the fuse cover is lying on the tails? Are we looking at pics of the right installation?

 

[Dartlec]

I have decided to move house and rent it out, I've just had an EICR report done by a local company and they've come back with a report I'd like advice on.

I'm not sure if anyone in here can help me decipher the report, or if it would be a case of getting another electrician out to re-do the test.

I've attached the full report but the major issues are:

C1 - No main earth
C2 - No bonding on gas
C2 - RCD has IP breach
C2 - Main tails undersized
C2 - DB has IP breach

I am a complete noob and have literally no idea about what any of this means, can anyone break it down in plain English and let me know if they are the correct codes and if £780 to do the repairs sounds accurate?

Many many thanks, James.
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Also just to add to this, it only took the guy about half an hour to do the report, it feels like he did it as quickly as possible and left but I might just be feeling a bit devastated about paying a grand for things I didn't even know needed doing.

Have lived here for 3 years now with no issue so it's a bit hard to take, but take it I will if it's all above board.

Others have already given good advice.

My only addition would be that in his time, there is no way he could have done adequate testing on the circuits to ensure that there are no problems. This smacks of a report done in order to obtain new work. Unfortunately the report is no longer attached, would love to see it (with identifying info removed).

I would suggest that he did not in any sense 'complete' an EICR, so charging for one is unreasonable. If he could see that it was going to fail and said there's no point continuing, then charged only for his time that might be a different matter.

I did a 1 bedroom flat today that was old but nearly perfect in terms of wiring, tests, etc - and that still took me well over 3 hours.

In your case if he hasn't done full tests on the ring circuit (sockets) for example, then he can't possibly quote to 'fix' everything - there may be issues with the sockets that would come to light while they were doing a board change - which would then suddenly be 'extras'.

At the very least you should expect an exact list of the work to be completed so you know what you are paying for, but personally I think it might be throwing good money after bad at this case.

Having said that, looking at the installation pictures there are probably good arguments for upgrading your fuse board. It must be now well over 30 years old and if issues start to occur while you have tenants in there may be additional costs with call outs or just annoying phone calls from the tenants when all their lights go out at 10pm.

Obviously hard to judge from 2 pictures, but I'd think that with shopping around it may be possible to get the board replaced AND an EICR completed for less than you would end up paying the first guy in total, even if it was a fixed price. Personally, I'd not want to encourage him though in any case.

Is he a member of one of the schemes? (NICEIC contractor or similar)? In which case it may be worth contacting them to raise it - it might lead to an uncomfortable question at his next assessment at the very least...

 

[Strima]

The report is no longer visible but I could have sworn it showed BS3036 OCPD?

Good spot, they were down as 3036.

 

[JamesWrite]

The report is no longer visible but I could have sworn it showed BS3036 OCPD? So our man has invented... The Rewireable Circuit Breaker.

And what of that other CU or switchfuse above the RCD, that might be a 1-way Wylex from which the fuse cover is lying on the tails? Are we looking at pics of the right installation?

There it is with the details crossed out. I wish I understood any of what you said! I've been in touch with another electrician who may be able to help, hopefully anyway.
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Does anyone know of any good electricians to get in touch with in the North East? Have contacted a few but not sure who's good or not. (Newcastle, Sunderland, Gateshead areas)

 

[Dartlec]

There it is with the details crossed out. I wish I understood any of what you said! I've been in touch with another electrician who may be able to help, hopefully anyway.
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Does anyone know of any good electricians to get in touch with in the North East? Have contacted a few but not sure who's good or not. (Newcastle, Sunderland, Gateshead areas)

Thank you for posting it. Hopefully the new electrician will be able to give you some clarity.

If he was only there for 45 minutes, then I fail to see how he could do all the tests that he has given results for, at least to a competent standard, though perhaps he is highly efficient!

There are some fairly basic errors in completing the form, which lead me to believe that what you have paid for is not a useful EICR for any purposes, let alone the one you want it for.

Though in this case perhaps he was accurate when he states that he was operating at approximately 30%!

Given that he claims to be a NICEIC contractor, it may be worth checking that he is actually registered with them, which you can do at this link. It may also give you some local companies, but perhaps others who are more local can advise on good options.

Edit: NICEIC forgot to pay for their web security certificate apparently However, checking here does seem to suggest they exist and are a large company. You could possibly ask to speak to a manager or request someone else attends if you want to deal with the company.

BTW, you've left their firm name on the footer of the certificate.

Having said all that, some if not all the codes he gives on the certificate may be accurate.

I try when giving codes to make then understandable to those reading the report, as well as giving references to the regulations where they are not being met.

Considering the C2 codes (which are what cause the report to be unsatisfactory)

Items 2,6 - IP rating on the RCD would mean holes in the structure - if live parts were easily accessible that way it would be a C1, but if there was a crack that looked as if it may worsen that could potentially be C2. I can't tell from the pictures, though there appear to be no visible gaping holes. Similarly with the DB IP breach item 6

Item 1 - Gas Bonding (Green/Yellow cable from the Main Feed to the gas pipe) should be present in most cases and if not then a C2 is appropriate. However, the bonding is something not at the gas meter (if it's external) and tests can be done to confirm if it is effectively present or not (not in a 45 minute test though)

Items 5, 4 - If he could not locate the earth rod, then that should have been a FI code (Further information) if he did not have time to investigate. Determining that there was not an earth rod could then be a C1. He has managed to put the details of a main earthing conductor on the form, verify it's continuity and connection, then claimed there isn't one.

It's possible your property is receiving its earth through the buried water pipe, which is not allowed as it could be changed to plastic in the future. Having said that, the fuse head looks newer, so it may be possible to upgrade to a supplier provided earth (if they are willing to provide one). Local to me that is a free service usually.

Item 3 - The main fuse appears to be 100A (at least on the side of the carrier - he has put 60A on the certificate and I doubt he pulled the main fuse to check?), in which case the feed to your consumer unit should be 25mm2. He has claimed they are 10mm2, which is possible, though its much more common to find 16mm2. (hard to tell from a photograph, but a little easier when handling them). If they were 16mm2, then they may still be safe for continued use, depending on the load attached (which is not huge in your case). A competent person would be able to make that judgement and decide whether they need replacing.

In short - the law requires you to have the installation inspected by a competent person (the definition can get wooly).

Individual mistakes can creep into a certificate (I've certainly made some) - but the number on this certificate and the way that it is completed does not give me confidence that this was a person competent in testing the installation so that you can prove you comply with the legal requirements.