Electrician Wanted

[cr0ft]

Hi Specialist. Fair point about the re-wire. I was hoping for a smaller 2nd certification job with NICEIC. The other job is running electrics for my dad's garage which is obviously a lot less work. It's just the way the jobs came in to be honest, hence why I'm looking for someone to work with on it.

I'm assuming electrics is like plumbing in that it's more work but if you are doing a full house re-plumbing job its actually easier to do than a large modification of an existing circuit. The though process being is you know what everything does as you've put it all in.

 

[cr0ft]

No Malcom, you're missing my point. I'm quite happy with designing the circuits etc, I'm doing that now. I'm happy that I could do the re-wire, have already planned the cable runs and had a good look round the house. Take your point about NICEIC and if I can get someone to help me then no I won't use this as an assessment job, I'll wait for another simpler one to come along and will use this to get experience.

I'm going to be doing all the wiring itself (I'm more than comfortable with this and wiring in a consumer unit etc) and would plan on the electrician just being there as almost a mock assessment to be honest, and to help me pull cables etc. Seems like a sensible approach to me (and several others on here it seems).

If I can't get someone to help me then I will use it as my assessment job (although I would prefer not to). It just seems like the sensible thing to do on my first larger job.

 

[Engineer54]

Thanks for that. I don't think I'm fooling either myself or the clients. The clients have been clearly informed that I've recently qualified and that this will be a NICEIC inspection job. I know my limitations to which is why I'm looking to work with someone. Please can you tell me where either of us have been fooled (as you put it)?

I think I made it quite clear that on paper I am qualified to do the work but in practise I recognise the need for experience. Perhaps you should take the time to read my post before making sarcastic replies, your first paragraph clearly shows that you have only read what you want to see in my post.

I am looking to bring in the other electrician on an advisory basis only and to help run cables etc (this is of course much easier with two people). With my engineering degree and recent qualifications I am more than happy calculating voltage drops, cable sizing and all other technical requirements for the domestic installation.

The reality is that I do feel happy with the re-wiring of the property but it just seems sensible to me that I look to do my first big job with someone more experienced in case I hit any problems that I don't feel confident about to be honest.

I haven't taken a basic 5 days course and planned to start doing full-scope work under this, I've taken a 5 week in depth course but despite this still want to work with someone to develop my skills further.

I really don't need to be told how long I need to work with another qualified electrician for as I'm very much aware of my limitations and abilities.

In the longer term I hope I can build up a good working relationship and that we can help each other out on electrical work, maybe plumbing work too if they are interested. Working on the basis that most jobs are much easier with 2 people.

I'm sorry that you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about people entering the industry in this way, but that, to be blunt, is your problem not mine.

It's good to hear that you know your limitations right now, but i hope you don't think one job is going to give you the necessary experience to continue on your own...

Being confident is fine, being over confident tends to get you in a whole heap of mess!! You've completed a 5 week course, and now your laying out plans based on someone being there to cover you, so what happens when that doesn't work out?? Are you still going to take work on such as rewires etc, by yourself, ...i think you Will??

I wouldn't have said a word, if you had done this course to be able to carry out the bits of electrical works that plumbers need to bring electricians in for, like shower pumps, thermostats, boiler wiring etc,

I don't have any chips on my shoulders, and people entering the industry via 5 day or 5 week courses, is basically not my problem, ...It's a problem for the UK Electrical industry, a very big problem, because it degrades and lessens the status of fully qualified and experienced electricians across the board, not just now, but even more so in the future!!!


How long did it take you to become a plumber, or was that a short course thing as well??

 

[polo1]

I have to admit I'm amazed at the response on here. I think the intelligent thing to do when you have just finished a short course is to get someone with more experience in than you (and pay them of course) to help you get up to speed. From the majority of responses on here I'm kind of wishing I hadn't bothered wasting my time to be honest.

Sorry for trying to do the right thing. I've been completely honest with my clients and I won't have anyone make out I'm misleading them as to my abilities. I am also very aware of my limitations which is why I'm asking for this.

Quite frankly, the negative responses aren't very helpful, if someone is interested in working with me and wants to be positive about it then please PM me. Not going to bother replying to people being negative any more.

I'm sorry you appear to have missed my "good luck" - I kinda anticipated some of the responses you would get before they appeared, so wanted to get in first!

It's a real shame that some very experienced and technically extremely sound posters on here can't get over the fact that there is a different way into our trade now. Personally, I don't like it either, but I'm not going to bad mouth or seek to belittle folks who take that route. As has been said already, there are bad, fully qualified sparks and good domestic installers, with everything inbetween. What's far more important to me are guys who provide a good service for a fair price, know their limitations and are not afraid to ask questions - we all have to learn (and continue to do so).
So, I'll repeat my offering of good luck, and hope you won't be put off coming back to the Forum to tell us how you are getting on, and to ask for advice.
Regards.

 

[malcolmsanford]

That so odd?

Some people just get a buzz out of doing new things...

I did an engineering degree, got bored, worked as a sound engineer/technician but work dried up. I've spent the past 8 years as cabin crew for a major airline and now I'm training to be a sparks.

I sometimes wonder what is happening in this world

I wonder how many doctors got up one morning and decide i'm bored with this, Paramedic is the way forward, or a lawyer saying yep paralegal for me.

In all my born days in this industry have I know an electrical engineer or any engineer decide well I have had enough of earning 50-60k a year, it's attics and outside lights for me now ..................

No wonder this industry is on it's knees.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

And you don't think that the 3 are even slightly related malcolmsanford? It's pretty obvious to most that engineering plumbing and electrical work are all related but don't let that put you off, keep writing your sarcastic drivel.

And not a problem, it sounds like no great loss from your attitude. I actually want to continue doing plumbing and add electrical work to my portfolio too but don't let that bother you. Plumbing and electrical trades go hand in hand and to be honest I will achieve what I want with 100 negative responses on here, I just need 1 person who is positive about it. No problem.

In the case that I don't get anyone who is interested then I will do it myself and have it assessed by NICEIC anyway, I would just prefer to do it in a mature way.

jsut reading your posts croft....quite the defensive one arn`t we.....no doubt you spent some time looking over similar threads to this in here prior to posting this.......what you have to remember here croft is that most of the members of this forum went to tech/college and served their time etc..and gained a foothold in the industry in the traditional way....now i have to tell you now that i aint a fan of these "6 week wonder courses" or "intensive training"...n stuff like that......theres a reason why things were done the way they were (and still are if done properly).....you are going to struggle to be taken seriously by quite a few in here and it aint them being
un-cooperative or awquard...just because how they feel dont quite suit your mindset......theres no getting away from it.....you have chosen a "quick easy route" as you see it.....exept you will find it wasn`t so "quick n easy" after all once you are out installin and fault finding and all the other stuff we have to do on a daily basis.....anyway, best o luck to you.....you`l need it mate.....

 

[DNS1]

I think you've got a point Malcolm, it wouldn't be right if cr0ft just worked supervised and then got the job assessed.

However, from what I understand, that's not what he was planning.

Just sounds like he wants a mate who knows what he/she is doing when it comes to assisting him. I sure as hell wouldn't want to do a rewire assisted by someone with zero experience who didn't know enough to get me the right cable from the van, or who couldn't drill a hole in a joist in the right place.

Even if he did need to ask the occasional bit of advice on the install, it would be no different to asking on here. I bet half the forum users have given someone advice on their assessed work (probably without ever knowing!)

 

[DNS1]

In all my born days in this industry have I know an electrical engineer or any engineer decide well I have had enough of earning 50-60k a year, it's attics and outside lights for me now ..................

You're living in the past I'm afraid mate. Not easy to earn that sort of money as an engineer these days, even with the degree (seeing as every man and his dog has one).

In my job you find a lot of people who have previous experience elsewhere. I've worked on aircraft with former doctors, nurses, lawyers and professional musicians.

The days of having to stick with a career are gone, there's nothing wrong with changing your mind these days and doing something completely different.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I think you've got a point Malcolm, it wouldn't be right if cr0ft just worked supervised and then got the job assessed.

However, from what I understand, that's not what he was planning.

Just sounds like he wants a mate who knows what he/she is doing when it comes to assisting him. I sure as hell wouldn't want to do a rewire assisted by someone with zero experience who didn't know enough to get me the right cable from the van, or who couldn't drill a hole in a joist in the right place.

Even if he did need to ask the occasional bit of advice on the install, it would be no different to asking on here. I bet half the forum users have given someone advice on their assessed work (probably without ever knowing!)

whats up with him?..should know ẁhat he`s doing......

 

[malcolmsanford]

That is my point, it is nothing to do with how long or not how long you have taken to become competent, to be assessed by a scheme.

It's not also the fact that someone will guide you or advise you, it is the fact that they will be physically installing cables, doing the work and on the assessment the OP will be standing in front of the assessor saying, yep all me guv.

 

[cr0ft]

Thanks all for the various opinions. It seems I have someone who is interested to work in the capacity I'm after. After all, I will be connecting all the wiring and will still have to answer any assessor's questions on the day, technical or otherwise, in order to pass.

For the record, I'm perfectly capable of drilling joists in the right place and selecting cable sizes!

I hope the negative ones are more positive when you are at customer's houses!

 

[DNS1]

whats up with him?..should know ẁhat he`s doing......

Very true, but there are some things which are just impossible without a 2nd pair of hands.

I just had to pull a cable through cavity wall yesterday to a new socket, despite it being technically very simple, it would have been near impossible without a friend at the bottom to shine the torch in from the bottom and grab the rod for me!

 

[malcolmsanford]

You're living in the past I'm afraid mate. Not easy to earn that sort of money as an engineer these days, even with the degree (seeing as every man and his dog has one).

In my job you find a lot of people who have previous experience elsewhere. I've worked on aircraft with former doctors, nurses, lawyers and professional musicians.

The days of having to stick with a career are gone, there's nothing wrong with changing your mind these days and doing something completely different.

I suppose i'am living in the past to a degree (pun or not) but to be honest a chartered electrical engineer will easily earn that type of money. The problem is in today's work place we are not guiding many people/ engineers to work towards that charter status because it takes time.

I'm not even sure how many points you need in today's workplace to get your charter but it took several years for a junior engineer to get that status with a lot of hard work and time as well, but the rewards are still there, just not the encouragement to do it I guess.

 

[1shortcircuit]

And here we go again... New member coming on here for advice and nearly everyone giving them a hard time because of the route into the trade. Come on guys, you must be getting bored of writing the same old arguments as much as many of us on the forum are getting bored of reading them?

cr0ft, there are good and bad in every trade. Sometimes I browse posts on this forum and wonder exactly HOW GOOD some of the members are, my reason being IF they were that good then why might they be on the forum posting so many negative comments? Some may be due to a different timeline, some may be due to health reasons but others (Possibly) due to the fact that they just cannot win any work at the moment and don't want to see yet more competition on it's way?

I believe you have tried to do right by joining the forum in search of advice. What you need to do now is let the negatives sprinkle off of your back and sift for the positive comments coming from the members you will learn a lot from. You will learn a great deal on here once you suss out who to listen to and who not. There are members who have posted in this thread who you may not want to write off just yet as they are very knowledgeable but just have a particular view on how things should be done

Welcome to the forum and good luck :thumbsup

1SC

 

[londonlec]

I wish you the best of luck, as some others have said you are definitely doing the right thing by not claiming to be a 'know it all'.

If I was nearby I'd certainly think it through. Best of luck.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

And here we go again... New member coming on here for advice and nearly everyone giving them a hard time because of the route into the trade. Come on guys, you must be getting bored of writing the same old arguments as much as many of us on the forum are getting bored of reading them?

cr0ft, there are good and bad in every trade. Sometimes I browse posts on this forum and wonder exactly HOW GOOD some of the members are, my reason being IF they were that good then why might they be on the forum posting so many negative comments? Some may be due to a different timeline, some may be due to health reasons but others (Possibly) due to the fact that they just cannot win any work at the moment and don't want to see yet more competition on it's way?

I believe you have tried to do right by joining the forum in search of advice. What you need to do now is let the negatives sprinkle off of your back and sift for the positive comments coming from the members you will learn a lot from. You will learn a great deal on here once you suss out who to listen to and who not. There are members who have posted in this thread who you may not want to write off just yet as they are very knowledgeable but just have a particular view on how things should be done

Welcome to the forum and good luck :thumbsup

1SC

I wasn`t being negitive short mate......just got a thing about people just "walzing in" and claiming their a qualified this n that....on the back of a 6 week course thats all....i dont like it and a aint gonna change what i think about it either......

 

[cr0ft]

Thanks and yes, I am defensive when people make ignorant comments about my abilities because I've done a 5 week course. I don't apologise for that.

Just to re-iterate Engineer54, my plumbing was a 'short course thing' as well, although my customers seem to have liked it. As I mentioned, my business was forced to VAT register due to turnover at the start of it's 3rd year of trading so I can't have been doing that badly at it. In fact, that goes against your obvious perception of people who do 'short course things' doesn't it?

I built my plumbing business having done a 7 week course 3 years ago into one of the most successful companies in my local town in 3 years. I'm not expecting my first year of electrical work to be plain sailing which is exactly why I'm looking to find someone to work with.

I would have thought that people would take me much more seriously coming on here acknowledging my limitations than going out unaided after a 5 week course but maybe I'm missing something.

If you can explain to me how someone with a mortgage and their own business can make a 3 or 4 year apprenticeship work for them (I'm 31 by the way) then crack on and explain it to me.

 

[Dan the spark]

Very true, but there are some things which are just impossible without a 2nd pair of hands.

I just had to pull a cable through cavity wall yesterday to a new socket, despite it being technically very simple, it would have been near impossible without a friend at the bottom to shine the torch in from the bottom and grab the rod for me!

Am I wrong here in saying that I was on the understanding that you weren't supposed to run cables down the cavity anymore?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well for a start croft...you wont find many "ignorant" members on a forum such as this......if we were all "ignorant" as you say then how would we be able to get our heads around the various books we have to consult on a regular basis...or all the codes of practice/regs we have to be mindful of?......if anything it`s you who is being ignorant by expecting many in here to give you lip service when your claiming to be "qualified" at this n that and have experience working in/on peoples properties........yet after becoming a "qualified electrician" in about..what was it?...ah yes 5 weeks...5 WEEKS..lol....

 

[Engineer54]

Thanks and yes, I am defensive when people make ignorant comments about my abilities because I've done a 5 week course. I don't apologise for that.

Just to re-iterate Engineer54, my plumbing was a 'short course thing' as well, although my customers seem to have liked it. As I mentioned, my business was forced to VAT register due to turnover at the start of it's 3rd year of trading so I can't have been doing that badly at it. In fact, that goes against your obvious perception of people who do 'short course things' doesn't it?

I built my plumbing business having done a 7 week course 3 years ago into one of the most successful companies in my local town in 3 years. I'm not expecting my first year of electrical work to be plain sailing which is exactly why I'm looking to find someone to work with.

I would have thought that people would take me much more seriously coming on here acknowledging my limitations than going out unaided after a 5 week course but maybe I'm missing something.

If you can explain to me how someone with a mortgage and their own business can make a 3 or 4 year apprenticeship work for them (I'm 31 by the way) then crack on and explain it to me.

Of course you don't apologise for it, why would you, ...you're a qualified electrian now!!

The reason i don't take you seriously, is because i can see that over confidence in you and in what you were taught in 5 weeks. You have shown that by your statement about having no troubles with a CU change, which you have never done before, and you confidently spouting about going it alone come what may. To be totally honest with you now, i think you wanted someone to help you get your assessment job completed, so that you could claim to be registered to give you some form of respectibility. The rest being a smoke screen... As i stated before on your thread, your only fooling yourself and unfortunately your clients!!

So because you have made a success out of a 7 week plumbing course, your well and truely confident it'll be the same on the electrical side, ...Right?? I can't tell you how wrong that assumption is going to be, you'll have to find that one out on your own!!!