Four cables into one single socket

[Rockingit]

Is it not just easier all round here to remember that BS7671 is not actually a design guide? When considered the other way around as being guidance on what you CAN'T do, the rest of life becomes much easier as its then up to the designer to justify their decisions. And we know the BGB is littered with contradictions, so why should this be any different?

Personally, I'd be looking to change that arrangement, not because of some reg on spurs which may or may not exist, but simply as I'd be concerned about the mechanics of four conductors jammed into a single small terminal and not actually being that secure.....and there ARE regs for that one!!

 

[Itisonlyme]

Personally, I'd be looking to change that arrangement, not because of some reg on spurs which may or may not exist, but simply as I'd be concerned about the mechanics of four conductors jammed into a single small terminal and not actually being that secure.....and there ARE regs for that one!!

Amen to that.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

[QUOTE

Personally, I'd be looking to change that arrangement, not because of some reg on spurs which may or may not exist, but simply as I'd be concerned about the mechanics of four conductors jammed into a single small terminal and not actually being that secure.....and there ARE regs for that one!![/QUOTE]

Blame the installer not the terminal,an experienced electrician will know if a connection is secure or not without resorting to regulations. If you endorse that point of view then there should be a regulation against 10mm cables in shower pullswitches.

 

[Rockingit]

[QUOTE

If you endorse that point of view then there should be a regulation against 10mm cables in shower pullswitches.

Although the difference with that example is that I would expect a shower isolator rated above 32 amps to have terminals sized to accept a 10mm cable.

I'm not in the slightest trying to remove the skill/experience of the installer at being able to jam in 4 x 2.5's and make them stay - let's face it we've all done it I'm sure - my point is that if we're going to have an argument about regs and 'best practice' then the designer (repairer!) is placed in mind to improve the situation, not just continue it.

 

[Itisonlyme]

[QUOTE

Personally, I'd be looking to change that arrangement, not because of some reg on spurs which may or may not exist, but simply as I'd be concerned about the mechanics of four conductors jammed into a single small terminal and not actually being that secure.....and there ARE regs for that one!!

Blame the installer not the terminal,an experienced electrician will know if a connection is secure or not without resorting to regulations. If you endorse that point of view then there should be a regulation against 10mm cables in shower pullswitches.[/QUOTE]

I would say the 4 wires into the old socket did indeed feel secure at the terminal, this is the only good thing I could say about the work done. He/she was adept at tightening screws.

 

[Itisonlyme]

Thought I'd check the MK website as I really don't see 4 * 2.5mm going into one of these terminals, they quote max 3 in the spec

 

[telectrix]

it's not just the terminals, it's the conductors squashed in the backbox that's also a major concern.

 

[Silly Sausage]

it's not just the terminals, it's the conductors squashed in the backbox that's also a major concern.

Get the Hilti out and dig a bigger backbox in.
Typical lazy scouser.

 

[telectrix]

hilti?? now that's lazy. a scouser uses the proper tools. hammer and chisel. because we're 'ARD.

 

[Silly Sausage]

hilti?? now that's lazy. a scouser uses the proper tools. hammer and chisel. because we're 'ARD.

Probably because you've nicked each others tools power tools and flogged them on ebay. :smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Thought I'd check the MK website as I really don't see 4 * 2.5mm going into one of these terminals, they quote max 3 in the spec

Interesting as I have terminated 2 x 6.0mm conductors in MK terminals without any drama,so in theory 4 x 2.5mm shouldn't be an issue.The point made about conductors squashed into back boxes though is a valid one....and I will refer you to my point about shower pullswitches. Burnt out pullswitches with 10mm cables are rife,those connections were no doubt tight initially,but after 5 minutes wrestling the wires back into the box the leverage imposed has loosened them and the thing burns out in time.

 

[Guest55]

is this little gem of a topic still rolling along ? lol

funny how its the most minor of issues that gets knickers twisted ;-)

and in reply to wirepullers comment ^^^ , im done with pullcords for showers , its either a wall switch or nowt on the rare occasions i do domestic.

 

[telectrix]

Probably because you've nicked each others tools power tools and flogged them on ebay. :smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

archie, i was beginning to like you but now you're wobbling between an anfield kiss or floating in the mersey. :6::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

[Knobhead]

is this little gem of a topic still rolling along ? lol

It’s DIY, why does it remain here to offend professional electricians?

Chuck the thread where it belongs, the DIY bin!

 

[Engineer54]

is this little gem of a topic still rolling along ? lol

funny how its the most minor of issues that gets knickers twisted ;-)

and in reply to wirepullers comment ^^^ , im done with pull cords for showers , its either a wall switch or nowt on the rare occasions i do domestic.

Nothing wrong with the 50A crabtree pull switches, shouldn't have to wrestle with setting back the cables in them!!

 

[Guest77]

It’s DIY, why does it remain here to offend professional electricians?

Chuck the thread where it belongs, the DIY bin!

And throw one or two of the members in it as well

 

[Itisonlyme]

It’s DIY, why does it remain here to offend professional electricians?

Chuck the thread where it belongs, the DIY bin!

I apologise if my thread offends you, and yes it should be in DIY but like many others the forum software would not let me put it there.

There are many on here who have tried to help and to those helpful people I say thanks, and the following comments are not intended to offend.

There are many DIYers such as myself who try to do the right thing when they come across something that is a little unusual in their electrical installation and the advice given here is of much use and goes to make a safer installation. I would not dream of doing any work which I am not competent to do and think that DIYers that take on things like CU change are bonkers.

Changing a socket is no more difficult than changing a plug so I suspect you are offended being asked to lower yourself to do such work.

As for professional electricians being offended it seems that half of the respondents would have happily addded four wires into the MK socket contrary to the manufacturers specification, would this therefore have been compliant to the regs? The other half said it was not good. So even the pros can't agree.

Many of the queries on here are answered by referring to regs which surely any professional electrician would know and I suppose these also offend you. Which begs the question why do you bother coming on here.

Again, thanks to all who made a positive contribution.

 

[davesparks]

You say changing a socket is no more difficult than changing a plug, and in some respects I am inclined to agree. Apart from the inherent danger that a socket can be opened whilst it is live but a 13A plug normally cannot.

But there are many many people oh think they are competent to change a plug when they really are not, sometimes dangerously so.

 

[Itisonlyme]

You say changing a socket is no more difficult than changing a plug, and in some respects I am inclined to agree. Apart from the inherent danger that a socket can be opened whilst it is live but a 13A plug normally cannot.

But there are many many people oh think they are competent to change a plug when they really are not, sometimes dangerously so.

More dangerous, yes. More difficult, no.

Worked for Currys back when plugs didn't come fitted and I saw a fair few plugs that had various wires in various places.

So far in the house I have come across two supplies that were used for storage heaters that had been left as live bare wires in fused spurs by "qualified" sparks (maybe to save the electricity the neon was burning and the effort of disconnecting at the supply end) so I take nothing for granted. On changing the metal light switches (for new metal light switches) I rectified the lack of earth to the face plates which had also been fitted by a "qualified" electrician. Also untwisted the twisted earth wires and terminated and sheathed them separately. Sheathed the relevant lighting wires that had not been sheathed. All of which had been done by qualified electricians.

No doubt a decent spark would find other faults and will do when I get one in to do the CU change and wire up the summer house as these are well out of my competency, though no doubt I could perform the actions required to get a wire down the garden I do not consider this makes me competent. My guess is the garage supply run out of the back of the cooker supply by a qualified electrician isn't going to comply!

Seems that not all "qualified" electricians are equal and as I came on here to get information to ensure my work was safe, compliant and to best practice it would be good if it was remembered that not all DIYers are equal either.

IMHO You should watch out for the DIYers that just do it thinking they know it all rather than the ones asking sensible questions.

 

[Engineer54]

Seems that not all "qualified" electricians are equal

You are 100% correct in that assessment. There is a world of difference between a 17 day whizzer or 5 Week Wonders that proclaim to be electricians and a fully trained and experienced time served electrician!!

Id also agree with you on DIY'ers, some of which i'd choose over one of the wannabes above to install a spurred socket outlet in my house!! lol!!