Fuse Seals

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deejay

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Newbie Question:

What’s the general consensus with cutting the main fuse seal for a consumer unit change? I’m aware of the requirement to contact the DNO, but just wondering what the done thing is in practical terms?

The logistics of getting the DNO to cut the fuse can be impractical, especially in the current climate.

If you are getting permission, how are you going about it?

Thanks
 
Ah the seal fairy.... comes in the night and leaves money under the pillow of a child when they lose their baby seals. ?
 
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who cuts meter seals to avoid pulling the bullet in case it's iffy? can be a lot safer in certain circs.
 
deejay said:
Newbie Question:

What’s the general consensus with cutting the main fuse seal for a consumer unit change? I’m aware of the requirement to contact the DNO, but just wondering what the done thing is in practical terms?

The logistics of getting the DNO to cut the fuse can be impractical, especially in the current climate.

If you are getting permission, how are you going about it?

Thanks
Click to expand...
A pair of side cutters usually does the biz foe me
 
1609516414480.png
 
But being serious for a minute, if (hypothetically) you were going to pull the DNO fuse you really need to take care if it is anything but a new-ish cut-out in good condition. Even then, you have to make sure it is not on load (so CU(s) already off at main switches) and to wear some PPE like a suitably rated face shield and at the very least something like rigger's gloves to provide some protection against arc-flash injuries to your hand.

If the cut-out looks very old or damaged in any way DO NOT TOUCH IT. In that case your only sane option is to get the DNO folk in to sort it out, as your day is going to end very badly if it shorts out on the incoming side of the cut-out fuse.
 
There are several around my area (including my own, before the meter was replaced), where whoever fitted the seal left so much slack in the wire that the fuse carrier can be pulled out and left hanging with the seal intact.
 
pc1966 said:
But being serious for a minute, if (hypothetically) you were going to pull the DNO fuse you really need to take care if it is anything but a new-ish cut-out in good condition. Even then, you have to make sure it is not on load (so CU(s) already off at main switches) and to wear some PPE like a suitably rated face shield and at the very least something like rigger's gloves to provide some protection against arc-flash injuries to your hand.

If the cut-out looks very old or damaged in any way DO NOT TOUCH IT. In that case your only sane option is to get the DNO folk in to sort it out, as your day is going to end very badly if it shorts out on the incoming side of the cut-out fuse.
Click to expand...
Was recently asked to comment on an EICR that was done for the church my wife goes to (covid permitting) because of a couple of C2's (no RCD's and a couple of unswitched sockets that "didn't comply with the regs") yet no mention of the poor condition of the service head (fused live and neutral) and the multiple 951 and P clip earths on the incoming cable, a quick call to the DNO and 6 hours later new service head and earthing all sorted.
Was interesting seeing the DNO guy getting his blow torch out to warm the door of the old service head that had been sealed shut because the pitch had bubbled up from the cable chamber and then hitting it with a big hammer, once opened he found the neutral fuse had been glued in by the melted pitch
Having a chat to the 2 guys on site and they couldn't understand why so many electricians don't like calling the DNO to have service head and earthing issues sorted, when I suggested it might be because the meter / service head seals were missing I was told they weren't interested unless there signs of theft of electricity.
telectrix said:
that's extortionate.

these better price.

www.ebay.co.uk

50 AL FERRULES SECURITY LEAD SEALS WIRE TAXI ELECTRIC METER UK STOCK DELIVERY | eBay

Best choice.
www.ebay.co.uk
Click to expand...
Even cheaper if you have a chat with the DNO man when he's swapping a service head or fixing the DNO earth for you
 
Zerax said:
oh ok... explains why they're expensive then... but why do you want your initials and number on the seal ? What make are those pliers ?
Click to expand...

Presumably so he knows if anyone has tampered with it in the time before his next visit.
 
Hi, I'm a long time lurker to the forum and have never posted before so forgive me for not introducing myself formally before.

This post interests me, as I would like to know why it is thought that we can't cut the seals. If I need to cut the main tails then I can't do it live so I have to cut the seals to pull the fuse.
I have never been told by any official representative of a DNO or even by a sign on or near to the head that I cannot do this. Without the presence of an isolator, what am I supposed to do and how would I know i am supposed to do something different?
 
Cagethethird said:
Hi, I'm a long time lurker to the forum and have never posted before so forgive me for not introducing myself formally before.

This post interests me, as I would like to know why it is thought that we can't cut the seals. If I need to cut the main tails then I can't do it live so I have to cut the seals to pull the fuse.
I have never been told by any official representative of a DNO or even by a sign on or near to the head that I cannot do this. Without the presence of an isolator, what am I supposed to do and how would I know i am supposed to do something different?
Click to expand...

Lots of threads on here about this subject.
 
DPG said:
Lots of threads on here about this subject.
Click to expand...
Even more in the Arms..... This thread is public ?


Where ever you have worked, there must have been stickers saying not to tamper with this equipment?
It belongs the DNO/Supplier so we shouldn't be touching it. (same with BT master sockets)

Yes, its easy to cut the seal, but you are risking injury by pulling the fuse without training or PPE. Even more so by pushing the fuse back in.

If contacted, the DNO/Supplier will install an isolator, although its troublesome getting them out in this pandemic.
 
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Cagethethird said:
Hi, I'm a long time lurker to the forum and have never posted before so forgive me for not introducing myself formally before.

This post interests me, as I would like to know why it is thought that we can't cut the seals. If I need to cut the main tails then I can't do it live so I have to cut the seals to pull the fuse.
I have never been told by any official representative of a DNO or even by a sign on or near to the head that I cannot do this. Without the presence of an isolator, what am I supposed to do and how would I know i am supposed to do something different?
Click to expand...
legally, you are not supposed to touch anything that is not after the meter, as the meter and service head are the property of the supplier and/or DNO. in an ideal world, you get DNO to remove their fuse before you connect, then get them to reinstate same. i reallife, that can turn an hour's work into half a day, or worse, entail 2 visits. no surprise that the seal fairy is so busy.
 
This topic comes up often on the forum.
Its a mix of dnos wanting to cover themselves and prevent damage etc to equipment and a risk assessment for the electrician.
My work covers 2 DNOs with a few small IDNO on new build estates of apartment buildings.

WPD say we are not to pull the fuse and charge around £80 to pull it and will wait an hour for you to fit an isolator.
SSEN who cover.mainly Wiltshire allow you to pull single phase domestic fuses subject to you being in a scheme or AC etc. They will provide seals on request upto 10 a time. In each case you should assess cut out for condition. Ensure no load etc. Any issues call them.
The IDNOs dont have a clue generally and are hard to speak to. That said one in Frome (lastmile connections) were great. Sent somebody round to check fuse rating as i did remote survey for an ev job and even fitted isolation switch free without being asked!

In any case where you are pulling a fuse. Key thing is assess it. Check for damage in carrier, check no bitumen, bird ---- holding it in. ensure no load on supply. Have a clear work area. Wear VDE gloves, visor etc.

from speaking to WPD and I have family working in some depots the issue isn't so much removing the fuse as if done in a steady firm pull is unlikely to cause issues.
the risk is putting it back in under load or depending on type putting one side in on an angle and causing arcing to other terminal. Person freaks out and it goes badly wrong. Hence need for gloves etc...
other issue WPD says can occur is the fuse prongs can be damaged or a bit tight, so people squeeze them down to fit in better then creating a possible loose connection in cut out or arcing. If the fuse holder is damaged do not even attempt to put it back in and call them. They might give you a telling off and say hoew dangerous it is but in real terms they won't seek prosecution unless you bypassed meter etc. They are more concerned with the safety aspect and will just replace holder.
 
freddo said:
They are official registered sealing pliers.
Click to expand...
Thanks... that explains the numbers then. I use the simple lead seal type that leaves a no marking... and was tempted to get some of the personalised ones... partly so that I know my seals and partly for corporate image. I'm still in two minds...
 
I worry with pulling fuses when there is a smart meter fitted and I don't recognise it as one that won't be an issue. I've heard that some of them have anti tamper systems on them that will trip out if they think the supply to them has been disconnected rather than a power outage. No idea how it would know, but that's just the sort of thing that'll really bugger up your day !
 
Gavin John Hyde said:
In any case where you are pulling a fuse. Key thing is assess it. Check for damage in carrier, check no bitumen, bird ---- holding it in. ensure no load on supply. Have a clear work area. Wear VDE gloves, visor etc.
Click to expand...
Whenever I see the DNO playing with domestic cutouts... there's no PPE in sight ! Extraordinary really, as I'm sure if anything did happen they'd get in big trouble. Their usual attitude is that if they know there's no load, there's very little risk, and it's only 230v anyway !!
 
Zerax said:
I worry with pulling fuses when there is a smart meter fitted and I don't recognise it as one that won't be an issue. I've heard that some of them have anti tamper systems on them that will trip out if they think the supply to them has been disconnected rather than a power outage. No idea how it would know, but that's just the sort of thing that'll really bugger up your day !
Click to expand...
There are some that do this.......that may explain my interest in the subject.
 
Zerax said:
Whenever I see the DNO playing with domestic cutouts... there's no PPE in sight ! Extraordinary really, as I'm sure if anything did happen they'd get in big trouble. Their usual attitude is that if they know there's no load, there's very little risk, and it's only 230v anyway !!
Click to expand...
WPD have a 3 strikes and your out policy for staff caught not following safe working ignoring PPE etc...
That said its only an issue if it goes wrong or they get caught! both not that common, once a year i think it is the supervisor goes out on site to observe so guess its ticked and crossed that day.
 
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