Garage & other external buildings

[cliffed]

Finished a Eicr,just your thoughts on this,the remote garage is supplied from the ring main of the house,other building are radials of this.
The supply enters from underground,& are pvc t&e,goes straight into a 2g power point,then to other points.
There is no main bonding required,thinking this needs isolation when entering the building,& other supplies protected accordingly.
Would you fit a small DB on the main in,or a complete no no,cause it’s a ring main.

 

[Octopus]

Fused spur ...... Where it leaves the house.

How did you code it?

 

[Pete999]

.QUOTE="cliffed, post: 1372096, member: 11164"]Finished a Eicr, just your thoughts on this,the remote garage is supplied from the Ring Final of the house, other buildings are radials of this.
The supply enters from underground, & are pvc T&E, goes straight into a 2g power point, then to other points.
There is no main bonding required, thinking this needs isolation when entering the building &, other supplies protected accordingly.
Would you fit a small DB on the main in, or is this a complete no no, because it’s a Ring Final?[/QUOTE]
Personally I would tell your client that the work is the Dogs dodas, and suggest to him that its ripped out and installed properly. Waiting for the abuse to come my way. Corrected this for you makes it easier to understand.

 

[Octopus]

Personally I would tell your client that the work is the Dogs dodas, and suggest to him that its ripped out and installed properly. Waiting for the abuse to come my way.

I would give it a C2, an unsatisfactory report and submit the EICR with my invoice ................... remedial work isn't part of the EICR unless you've been asked to fix as you go along...

 

[Spoon]

the remote garage is supplied from the ring main of the house,other building are radials of this

Is the garage part of the house ring ( @Pete999 ) or it it radial? Your post is not clear as it sounds like only the 'other buildings' are radial and not the garage. That is why you put "& are pvc t&e". Plural.

The supply enters from underground,& are pvc t&e

Are the cables in trunking/conduit or just directly buried? What is protecting these cables from damage?

 

[shaun1]

If the garage is on the ring, what is the distance of the cable run from the house? If there is a load of extra cable on one side of the ring it is going to make quite unbalanced if there are large loads at other points (e.g kitchen close to the CU)

 

[cliffed]

.QUOTE="cliffed, post: 1372096, member: 11164"]Finished a Eicr, just your thoughts on this,the remote garage is supplied from the Ring Final of the house, other buildings are radials of this.
The supply enters from underground, & are pvc T&E, goes straight into a 2g power point, then to other points.
There is no main bonding required, thinking this needs isolation when entering the building &, other supplies protected accordingly.
Would you fit a small DB on the main in, or is this a complete no no, because it’s a Ring Final?

Personally I would tell your client that the work is the Dogs dodas, and suggest to him that its ripped out and installed properly. Waiting for the abuse to come my way. Corrected this for you makes it easier to understand.[/QUOTE]
Thanks,I might just do that.

 

[cliffed]

If the garage is on the ring, what is the distance of the cable run from the house? If there is a load of extra cable on one side of the ring it is going to make quite unbalanced if there are large loads at other points (e.g kitchen close to the CU)

Yes it’s on the house ring,loading not too sure.

 

[cliffed]

Is the garage part of the house ring ( @Pete999 ) or it it radial? Your post is not clear as it sounds like only the 'other buildings' are radial and not the garage. That is why you put "& are pvc t&e". Plural.


Are the cables in trunking/conduit or just directly buried? What is protecting these cables from damage?

Good question,I have no idea,the cables are coming from underground into the garage.

 

[cliffed]

Is the garage part of the house ring ( @Pete999 ) or it it radial? Your post is not clear as it sounds like only the 'other buildings' are radial and not the garage. That is why you put "& are pvc t&e". Plural.


Are the cables in trunking/conduit or just directly buried? What is protecting these cables from damage?

It’s the house ring main.

 

[cliffed]

Fused spur ...... Where it leaves the house.

How did you code it?

No it’s off the house ring main.

 

[Pete999]

The blind leading the blind.

 

[Octopus]

No it’s off the house ring main.

In which case add a FCU where it leaves the socket circuit...

 

[cliffed]

The blind leading the blind.

Ha ha

 

[cliffed]

In which case add a FCU where it leaves the socket circuit...

Or maybe where the ring main enters the garage,put a switch spur,then supply all other circuits of that switch spur

 

[cliffed]

Guys,remember I haven’t installed this configuration,I’ve just reported on it.

 

[westward10]

I do not understand why you need other peoples thoughts. If you are competent to carry out EICRs I don't see why any of these issues need clarification.

 

[Octopus]

Or maybe where the ring main enters the garage,put a switch spur,then supply all other circuits of that switch spur

That would do it but the obvious thing to point out that then all the load is limited to 13A ................... will that be enough?

How did you code this issue on the EICR?

 

[cliffed]

That would do it but the obvious thing to point out that then all the load is limited to 13A ................... will that be enough?

How did you code this issue on the EICR?

C2 there won’t be a great load going on,so it should be fine,thanks for your help.

 

[cliffed]

I do not understand why you need other peoples thoughts. If you are competent to carry out EICRs I don't see why any of these issues need clarification.

That’s what this forum’s all about,having an insight to what others are thinking.

 

[Nigel]

Personally I don't think there is enough info.

For example if it is a 4mm spur then what code could you reasonably give the installation? None in my book.

However if it is a 2.5mm spur with more than a double socket on the spur then it is a C2.

 

[cliffed]

Personally I don't think there is enough info.

For example if it is a 4mm spur then what code could you reasonably give the installation? None in my book.

However if it is a 2.5mm spur with more than a double socket on the spur then it is a C2.

It’s a ring main into a remote garage,does it need an isolation switch for the garage & there are other 2.5mm radials supplying other buildings,from that point too.

 

[Spoon]

Finished a Eicr,just your thoughts on this,the remote garage is supplied from the ring main of the house,other building are radials of this.
The supply enters from underground,& are pvc t&e,goes straight into a 2g power point,then to other points.
There is no main bonding required,thinking this needs isolation when entering the building,& other supplies protected accordingly.

C2 there won’t be a great load going on,so it should be fine,thanks for your help.

Forgive my ignorance but what warrants this to be a C2?
What reg number is it going against?

 

[Nigel]

It’s a ring main into a remote garage,does it need an isolation switch for the garage & there are other 2.5mm radials supplying other buildings,from that point too.

So the ring final extends to the garage? There is no spur?

 

[cliffed]

Isolation required on all sub circuits,correct mcb protection on cabling.

 

[cliffed]

So the ring final extends to the garage? There is no spur?

Yes,straight into a 2g power socket,then 2.5mm radials to other buildings.
Does it need an isolation point.

 

[westward10]

Have you been asked to rectify or provide a remedial quote because I do not understand why you do not just state the facts of what you have found in the Report.

 

[cliffed]

Sorry,it’s remedial works,the client wants it to comply to latest regs.

 

[Nigel]

Yes,straight into a 2g power socket,then 2.5mm radials to other buildings.
Does it need an isolation point.

Given what you have said I don't think it does no.

 

[Jjc]

This is a death trap either disconnect the supply to the garage or board it up to prevent use it is outwith the equipote ncial zone

 

[westward10]

No such thing as an equipotential bonding zone anymore.

 

[Spoon]

This is a death trap either disconnect the supply to the garage or board it up to prevent use it is outwith the equipote ncial zone

From what the OP has said why is the supply to the garage a death trap? It's part of the ring circuit of the house. Yes it could have been done a lot better. The OP needs to find out what is protecting the two T&E cables going to the garage.

Sorry @cliffed I missed the size of the radials in your post. You state that they are going to 'other buildings' but what for? Could you put a FCU in so the 2.5mm will be ok? What is protecting the 2.5 radial cables? How are they routed to the other buildings?

 

[cliffed]

From what the OP has said why is the supply to the garage a death trap? It's part of the ring circuit of the house. Yes it could have been done a lot better. The OP needs to find out what is protecting the two T&E cables going to the garage.

Sorry @cliffed I missed the size of the radials in your post. You state that they are going to 'other buildings' but what for? Could you put a FCU in so the 2.5mm will be ok? What is protecting the 2.5 radial cables? How are they routed to the other buildings?

Yea we can put spurs in to protect the other circuits.
Thanks for your guidance,I agree it could of been done better,the ring to the garage comes from the rcbo supplying the ring main to the house.
My concern was really an isolation point,looking & reading all replies ,I’m thinking of putting a switch spur on the incoming ring,then feeding the garage,then the remaining supplies off fcu’s.
The other radialsare serving power & lights in a couple of sheds.Isolation at those points will be 20 amp Dp.
The bug bear to me is the supply,& knowing the best way to actually comply to regs correctly.
Thanks

 

[Spoon]

I’m thinking of putting a switch spur on the incoming ring,then feeding the garage,then the remaining supplies off fcu’s.

Will the customer be happy being limited to 13A for the garage and the 'other buildings'?
What are you going to do if the T&E cables that go to the garage are just buried in the ground without any protection? You need to know what is going on here before you can fix things.

 

[cliffed]

Agree,but how do you know how they are installed without digging the patio up.
13 amps will have to do.

 

[Spoon]

Agree,but how do you know how they are installed without digging the patio up.
13 amps will have to do.

But what you are suggesting is to alter the circuit to the garage and the 'other buildings' when the cables to the garage may not comply with regs.
You are doing the changes and your name will be on the cert.
If the cables going to the garage are to regs then all is fine. If not then this will need sorting as well.

 

[telectrix]

You are doing the changes

oh no, he's going to be gender whatever.

 

[cliffed]

But what you are suggesting is to alter the circuit to the garage and the 'other buildings' when the cables to the garage may not comply with regs.
You are doing the changes and your name will be on the cert.
If the cables going to the garage are to regs then all is fine. If not then this will need sorting as well.

What else can you do,it’s not ideal at the moment,but it will be safer than before,noted on cert,there’s no way you can actually say yes or no to the cabling already installed.

 

[Pete999]

What else can you do,it’s not ideal at the moment,but it will be safer than before,noted on cert,there’s no way you can actually say yes or no to the cabling already installed.

You can make a good guess by exposing a few feet of the cable run at each end, to see if the cable has been butchered in or done properly, but don't be too dissapointed at what you find.

 

[Spoon]

What else can you do,it’s not ideal at the moment,but it will be safer than before,noted on cert,there’s no way you can actually say yes or no to the cabling already installed.

Sorry,it’s remedial works,the client wants it to comply to latest regs.

As what @Pete999 says. Not wanting to sound harsh but without knowing if the cables comply you are not doing what you quoted above. Just do it properly mate.
You don't want someone down the line doing an EICR on the property and them coming on here saying "someone was meant to update this work but the cables to the garage and other buildings don't comply. What a muppet..."

 

[cliffed]

Kinda agree but,there are limitations to what can be done,it will be noted on the cert.
There is no agreement that the cables will be re-cabled.

 

[Octopus]

There is no agreement that the cables will be re-cabled.

What does the EICR code and what have you been asked to quote for?

Too many variables IMHO

 

[cliffed]

A report was given,my company listed the remedials,we are completing the list,C2 was the original code,this was for the ring main into the garage,& what we could do to improve the situation on that.

 

[Spoon]

A report was given,my company listed the remedials,we are completing the list,C2 was the original code,this was for the ring main into the garage,& what we could do to improve the situation on that.

But if the cables going into the garage don't comply then your suggested changes would still make it a C2, wouldn't it?

 

[westward10]

What does the original C2 actually state.

 

[cliffed]

There’s no real way to prove the cables don’t comply.

 

[cliffed]

There’s no real way to prove the cables don’t comply.

What does the original C2 actually state.

C2 referred to the connection in the garage,theres no actual wording about the supply or installation of the cables,only of a ring main suppling garage

 

[westward10]

To what effect, what does it actually state.

 

[cliffed]

It’s like starting all over again,a ring main supplies the garage,there are radials from this power socket,going elsewhere.
Will I need isolation at this point,there isn’t any mention of cables supplying the garage,I have no idea how they have been installed,only that they are entering the garage from below.

 

[westward10]

You have been asked to remedy the C2s, so what does C2 actually state????