HOUSE upstairs lights

[thelondonway]

domestic house call out today- upstairs lights not working , loop in system looks like bathroom lights is first on circuit , got power leaving breaker but no power anywhere upstairs ,no power at any light or switch.

although the stupid volt pen was flashing on initial contact of some of the circuit clarified with fluke it had no power .

after clarifying no power at any accessories i went into loft to examine routes but loft is mayhem advised for loft clear out before proceeding with fault find

anyone any ideas

breaker not tripping , break in cable somewhere

 

[Octopus]

R1 + R2, R1 + RN, R2 + Rn?

 

[Darkwood]

Drop all switches and check then accessories (light fittings) before diving into loft sounds like loose, broken wire also ask if they have changed anything like switches wont believe how much time ive wasted because owner didnt want to admit its their own fault.

 

[Baker1988]

I would do do r1 rn test go to the board and turn off mcb then connect live and neutral in the board then go to last light on the circuit and test r1 and rn then work your way back till you get a reading that will tell you inbetween what light the break is at

 

[thelondonway]

what would this determine in this situation

 

[thelondonway]

theres power leaving the board
loop in system
not 1 light has a feed

 

[Baker1988]

theres power leaving the board
loop in system
not 1 light has a feed

Are you sure the mcb is working correctly

 

[tbs1983]

Did u ask when they first noticed, had they done anything unusual that day e.g. Been in loft and possibly caught foot on cable without noticing pulling it out of light. Or had they had any work done by another tradesman or DIY and possibly damaged cable somehow that way?

 

[Octopus]

what would this determine in this situation

???

If you are certain that the bathroom is the first light and its loop in you need to determine if the cores are complete from the CU to the fitting!!

 

[thelondonway]

asked all usual questions nothing done in house
been like this since sat
mcb defo ok used fluke and showed L-n - L-E on load side
asked when last were in loft and they said xmas

 

[Guest111]

When you said the voltstick lit but meter read no voltage are you sure its not dropped the neutral?

 

[Octopus]

What do YOU plan to do next?

 

[ste77]

mice in the loft?

 

[thelondonway]

defo is the bathroom , as it has 4 cables in loop in all rest have 2
the 4 in bathroom are the normal 1 in 1 out , 1 to switch and theres a fan with timer off it also

- - - Updated - - -

mice in the loft?

i was thinking this , breaker not tripping though so must be through the live only

 

[tbs1983]

Thats what I was just thinking philD. Junction box in loft with a loose neutral connection been sizzling away for a while and finally snapped??? Should still have 230v L-E though if this happened, just no lights!

 

[thelondonway]

When you said the voltstick lit but meter read no voltage are you sure its not dropped the neutral?

when testing with the pen it showed it was dead but now n then it would initialy light up on contact then go out straight away done this about 5 times , but fluke showed defo dead

- - - Updated - - -

Thats what I was just thinking philD. Junction box in loft with a loose neutral connection been sizzling away for a while and finally snapped??? Should still have 230v L-E though if this happened, just no lights!

wont be junction box with loop in

 

[Jay Sparks]

Is there maybe a fused spur somewere between the feed and the first (bathroom) light. Could be someone fitted one to down rate the fuse for the fan!!

Just a thought.

 

[Guest111]

Thats what I was just thinking philD. Junction box in loft with a loose neutral connection been sizzling away for a while and finally snapped??? Should still have 230v L-E though if this happened, just no lights!

true but has he tested L-E?

 

[thelondonway]

What do YOU plan to do next?

gain access to loft when cleared and trace above bathroom

- - - Updated - - -

true but has he tested L-E?

course i have
L-N L-E N-E
nothing anywhere apart from db

 

[Octopus]

gain access to loft when cleared and trace above bathroom

- - - Updated - - -


course i have
L-N L-E N-E
nothing anywhere apart from db

But he hasn't confirmed dead tests on L, N or E to the bathroom. That's what I'd do first.

 

[thelondonway]

it happend on sat , they said they heard a 2-3 pop/bang sounds in bathroom
the guy changed extractor fan thinking it was that but no

 

[thelondonway]

But he hasn't confirmed dead tests on L, N or E to the bathroom. That's what I'd do first.

u meaning bell them out

 

[Andy78]

When what really happened is guy changed fan, then they heard pop/bang noises, then called you.

 

[Octopus]

u meaning bell them out

I'd be doing R1 + R2 on all 3 cores in pairs and comparing the readings.

Just this morning I fixed a wall light for a client. The lights fuse went bang. A cable inside the fitting had broken and estalblished this by taking it off the wall and doing the basics! How the cable got damaged is beyond me, as it was totally encased in a metal fitting!

 

[thelondonway]

hmmm unless hes screwed fan up and screwed through live ,

 

[thelondonway]

I'd be doing R1 + R2 on all 3 cores in pairs and comparing the readings.

Just this morning I fixed a wall light for a client. The lights fuse went bang. A cable inside the fitting had broken and estalblished this by taking it off the wall and doing the basics! How the cable got damaged is beyond me, as it was totally encased in a metal fitting!

i take on board what your saying but theres lne leaving board and nothing at any of the looped in lights

 

[Octopus]

i take on board what your saying but theres lne leaving board and nothing at any of the looped in lights

I give up!

 

[Guest55]

screw / nail through cable in wall.
any new pictures / diy gone up since lights stopped working ?

 

[tbs1983]

Has he tampered with fan isolator at all whilst doing the fan? Sometimes loop in/out are wired through a fan isolator

 

[thelondonway]

I give up!

am i missing something
sorry ?

 

[Octopus]

am i missing something
sorry ?

Come back and post a thread when you have confirmed continuity of the 3 cores from the board to the first light!

 

[thelondonway]

Come back and post a thread when you have confirmed continuity of the 3 cores from the board to the first light!

i think the fact that i have it leaving board and not at the firswt light pretty much confirms theres a break

 

[Octopus]

i think the fact that i have it leaving board and not at the firswt light pretty much confirms theres a break

And this statement pretty much confirms you don't know what you are doing.

 

[thelondonway]

:S care to explain

 

[thelondonway]

i think the fact that i have it leaving board and not at the firswt light pretty much confirms theres a break

im reffering to live only murdoch

 

[dan86]

I doubt he does tbh.
yet ANother I unsubscribe from!

 

[bigbaddave]

:S care to explain

Its not rocket science. With a continuity tester test for you break.. R1+R2 or R1 + RN and RN +R2. surley that should confirm what the break is. After which Is correcting..

I fail to see what you a struggling with bud

 

[thelondonway]

I doubt he does tbh.
yet ANother I unsubscribe from!

?.............

 

[lfcsparkycus]

dont pretty much confirm anything, test it to confirm it, it will save you loads of time!

 

[decolad69]

Screwfix for you my boy! and no tea,off you go .........

 

[thelondonway]

Its not rocket science. With a continuity tester test for you break.. R1+R2 or R1 + RN and RN +R2. surley that should confirm what the break is. After which Is correcting..

I fail to see what you a struggling with bud

lol i know how to carry out continuity test , fair enough i have not confirmed cont for nuetral and earth or live DEAD
but the fact there isnt a live connection at first light tells me its a break somewhere,
bearing in mind i got this call at 4:30pm today spent 40mins casing it out checking for power etc , before going into loft to look above first light to see if there is anything obvious like a fried mouse ,
loft was chocka couldnt see a decimal of insulation

 

[thelondonway]

Screwfix for you my boy! and no tea,off you go .........

:S great comment

 

[bigbaddave]

If this is a wind up then seriously do one.. Had enough over the last day or so of these idiots..

If its genuine.. Take the advice that everyone has given you and test with a proper tester to determine is you have a break and if so what are and where it is.

Sounds like this guy is paying top dollar for you to turn up and determine a fault with only a volt stick...

If you were working on my house id be pretty peed off if you turned up and either 1) didnt have the relevent test gear to test or B) know how to use it to fault find..

Either take the advice or disappear to screwfix forum

 

[thelondonway]

If this is a wind up then seriously do one.. Had enough over the last day or so of these idiots..

If its genuine.. Take the advice that everyone has given you and test with a proper tester to determine is you have a break and if so what are and where it is.

Sounds like this guy is paying top dollar for you to turn up and determine a fault with only a volt stick...

If you were working on my house id be pretty peed off if you turned up and either 1) didnt have the relevent test gear to test or B) know how to use it to fault find..

Either take the advice or disappear to screwfix forum

take a breathe , i could see your point if a came on and said cant find voltage im stumped
only said at this stage no power at any accessory ,clarified 1st light NO ACCESS TO LOFT ,wasnt wasting any time dead testing when i cant even get in loft to trace the fault

 

[thelondonway]

ORIGINAL POST---------------domestic house call out today- upstairs lights not working , loop in system looks like bathroom lights is first on circuit , got power leaving breaker but no power anywhere upstairs ,no power at any light or switch.
although the stupid volt pen was flashing on initial contact of some of the circuit clarified with fluke it had no power .
after clarifying no power at any accessories i went into loft to examine routes but loft is mayhem advised for loft clear out before proceeding with fault find anyone any ideas ,breaker not tripping , break in cable somewhere,

NOTICE I ASKED ANYONE ANY IDEAS , THIS WAS MEARLY A BRAIN WORKING EXERCISE NOT HELP/SOS SPARK WITH VOLT PEN CANT FAULT FIND

jeeeez

 

[decolad69]

No,jeeeez, this is an ELECTRICIANS FORUM you would have crucified a DIY'R for this, BASIC fault finding mate Basic :wub:

 

[thelondonway]

No,jeeeez, this is an ELECTRICIANS FORUM you would have crucified a DIY'R for this, BASIC fault finding mate Basic :wub:

round in circles m8, i didnt say i gave up and didnt know what to do next , clearly explained in op what i had done and that access prevented further investigation
point of post was for some ideas solely for the fun of it
and you guys all jump at the chance to crucify anyone

 

[onions1066]

I skipped page 2 as boring, but I go to a lot of faults of all shapes and sizes in all different installations, it's very rare you just get a leg go "down" it's normally a loose connection or something someone has done, if they haven't done anything I'd be checking connections before ripping loft to bits. I get your post wasn't a cry for help as such and I think people have jumped on you a tad unfairly here so I think it's time to quit this one and you can tell everyone what you found tomorrow and give them the V sign if you was right. :hurray:

 

[chopper]

make sure the bathroom is the first light, confirm this by testing all the 3 cores, and if nothing there try each fitting testing continuity,
if no reading at all this will confirm 1, 2 or all 3 cores are broke to first light.
then u could dissconnect the lne out of the db and wire a temp link to first light , put power on they then should all work. then carry out all relevent tests after repair

 

[thelondonway]

I skipped page 2 as boring, but I go to a lot of faults of all shapes and sizes in all different installations, it's very rare you just get a leg go "down" it's normally a loose connection or something someone has done, if they haven't done anything I'd be checking connections before ripping loft to bits. I get your post wasn't a cry for help as such and I think people have jumped on you a tad unfairly here so I think it's time to quit this one and you can tell everyone what you found tomorrow and give them the V sign if you was right. :hurray:

cheers onions :hurray: glad someones not been on the fighting juice ,
will clarify there are no hidden joints anywhere in loft and check all connections , really dont think the L will be down will be a loose connection from where it leaves board upto loft