JIB - Completed Apprenticeship 1998

[Nolan1977]

Hi I’m having trouble with getting “Completed Apprenticeship” on back of my card although I’m graded as an “Installation Technical”.

I finished my apprenticeship in 1998. I didn’t ever remember receiving a JIB409 did they even exist then ? No idea where my training deeds are either. Did anyone finish their apprenticeship in 1998 or around that time and get a JIB 409 ?

 

[123]

I completed mine in 2003 and all I have from the JIB is a Completion Diploma. My gold card has completed apprenticeship on the back of it

 

[Nolan1977]

I completed mine in 2003 and all I have from the JIB is a Completion Diploma. My gold card has completed apprenticeship on the back of it

Pretty sure the NVQ3 thing started in 1999 so I was the last year that didn’t need that.

I have a few certs from my 236 part 1&2 and an AM1 & AM2 but nothing regarding completion of apprenticeship.

I have an ECS gold card graded as a Technician but want ‘completed apprenticeship’ for all those years of £40 a week

 

[swaRRR]

I have an ECS gold card graded as a Technician but want ‘completed apprenticeship’ for all those years of £40 a week

Do you get more money for that?

 

[Nolan1977]

Do you get more money for that?

Nope it’s more principle

 

[swaRRR]

Nope it’s more principle

Seems like a waste of time to chase having those words on the back of a card that stays in your wallet for 99.9% of its life.

 

[westward10]

Seems like a waste of time to chase having those words on the back of a card that stays in your wallet for 99.9% of its life.

You seem to have a very negative attitude toward this kind of thing and that is fine it is your prerogative but if you have nothing positive to say you should leave the thread alone.

 

[swaRRR]

You seem to have a very negative attitude toward this kind of thing and that is fine it is your prerogative but if you have nothing positive to say you should leave the thread alone.

I just think it's a time sink chasing something that isn't going to make any difference to someone's life, job opportunities, wages, or status.

I could see the point if you say had it printed on the side of the van like when you're a member of NIC and they've only given you the logo without 'approved contractor' written on it or something, but for a card that just stays in your pocket i don't see the point wasting time chasing it up.

 

[Eddy Currents]

I just think it's a time sink chasing something that isn't going to make any difference to someone's life, job opportunities, wages, or status.

If you had done the same or even spent more than a few days on just an 18th edition course instead of the few years everyone else does then maybe you would understand

If titles do not matter to you then why do you call yourself a qualified electrician when you are just a mate?

 

[GBDamo]

If you had done the same or even spent more than a few days on just an 18th edition course instead of the few years everyone else does then maybe you would understand

If titles do not matter to you then why do you call yourself a qualified electrician when you are just a mate?

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment, the JIB gold card tells you very little about the man's capabilities.

The majority of Gold card holders are on big sites, following designs and drawings, doing a very specific aspect of the trade day in day out. The vast majority of of the skills and knowledge for these specialities are gained on site and these specialists will forget 95% of the detail contained in their formal education.

An entry card that focuses so intensely on formal qualifications is not fit for purpose.

The JIB is anachronistic and the Gold card an anachronism. It harks back to Unionised closed shops where being part of the club was more important than capability.

They are barriers to entry, not conduits.

Disclosue; I don't have one, came through the short course route, got a labourers card some time ago.

I understand people being very protective of the Gold Card, having jumped through all the hoops, I'd probably be the same, and it's also very self affirming.

But.. the Gold Card doesn't make your the Electrician you are.

 

[Eddy Currents]

the JIB gold card tells you very little about the man's capabilities.

I totally agree but at least it shows the holder has gone through a formal verified process with an assessment to gauge their work and safety (AM2)

I don't mean to disrespect anyone here, I have worked with many improvers and mates who are better than some sparks, the point I was trying to make is the reason someone is so passionate about their qualifications and what they had to do to get them which I don't expect someone who hasn't done anywhere near the same to understand

You have done the short course route and there is nothing wrong with that and for some is the only option. Can I ask what sort of short course? a formal course with AM2 at the end or just the 18th edition?

 

[GBDamo]

I totally agree but at least it shows the holder has gone through a formal verified process with an assessment to gauge their work and safety (AM2)

I don't mean to disrespect anyone here, I have worked with many improvers and mates who are better than some sparks, the point I was trying to make is the reason someone is so passionate about their qualifications and what they had to do to get them which I don't expect someone who hasn't done anywhere near the same to understand

You have done the short course route and there is nothing wrong with that and for some is the only option. Can I ask what sort of short course? a formal course with AM2 at the end or just the 18th edition?

I did a domestic installers course about ten years ago, with inspection and test. Then a skills assessment through NAPIT to gain their Approved Contractor status about five years ago. Without digging out the paper icouldnt list the exact courses.

Along the way I've done a few short courses, EV course, EM lighting, basically when something new comes along, do a course.

After my recent interactions with the "professionals" I'm looking into fire alarm installation.

Don't claim to know it all but I do know what I don't know and how to go about gaining the knowledge.

 

[Eddy Currents]

So you have done a recognised route and gained everything you needed and more

And by your original reply, you seem to understand why someone would want their achievements recognised and more importantly did not comment on why someone would want it on their card

 

[swaRRR]

If you had done the same or even spent more than a few days on just an 18th edition course instead of the few years everyone else does then maybe you would understand

The length of time it took me to do the 18th edition course is indicative of how long i've been doing electrics for?

If titles do not matter to you then why do you call yourself a qualified electrician when you are just a mate?

1. I'm not a 'mate', i do full installs on my own, mate.
2. Where did i call myself qualified? Oh, that's right, absolutely nowhere.

You're having a pop here because you're carrying it over from that other thread that you failed to read properly.

If we're gonna be petty too you'll probably be glad to know that i'm likely on the same or more money than you even though i've not got any tickets.

 

[swaRRR]

Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment, the JIB gold card tells you very little about the man's capabilities.

JIB gold card usually tells me i'm going to have to around after them putting their mistakes right. At least that's what happens to me at work.

The majority of Gold card holders are on big sites, following designs and drawings, doing a very specific aspect of the trade day in day out. The vast majority of of the skills and knowledge for these specialities are gained on site and these specialists will forget 95% of the detail contained in their formal education.

An entry card that focuses so intensely on formal qualifications is not fit for purpose.

The JIB is anachronistic and the Gold card an anachronism. It harks back to Unionised closed shops where being part of the club was more important than capability.

They are barriers to entry, not conduits.

Disclosue; I don't have one, came through the short course route, got a labourers card some time ago.

I understand people being very protective of the Gold Card, having jumped through all the hoops, I'd probably be the same, and it's also very self affirming.

But.. the Gold Card doesn't make your the Electrician you are.

Very well put. Those who have these types of 'qualifications' are always very defensive of them. Maybe it's because they've been silly enough to spend all that time and money getting them.

The most successful and knowledgeable spark i know has his 18th edition and his 2392. Doesn't have anything else except experience. He also spends his days putting right the work of 'time served' electricians who can't wire meters the right way round.

 

[7029 dave]

I knew someone years ago, got graded by the JIB as an approved Electrician NO quals what so ever. When I asked him he said my firm gave references and the JIB ok'd it.
Bet that would not happen now lol.

 

[GBDamo]

JIB gold card usually tells me i'm going to have to around after them putting their mistakes right. At least that's what happens to me at work.

Very well put. Those who have these types of 'qualifications' are always very defensive of them. Maybe it's because they've been silly enough to spend all that time and money getting them.

The most successful and knowledgeable spark i know has his 18th edition and his 2392. Doesn't have anything else except experience. He also spends his days putting right the work of 'time served' electricians who can't wire meters the right way round.

And that's the crux, it's the man not the paper.

In the last five years we've employed three traditionally qualified sparks.

1, was a lovely lad, technically competent but couldn't tell one end of a screwdriver from the other, totally practically inept. Had to go, now works at a university as on site maintenance. Best of luck to him.

2, all the paper and cards, shiny tools, didn't want to work, Had to go, don't keep in touch.

3, pressent one, and a keeper. All the paper, practically solid, if a bit rough, but the regs may as well be written in a foreign language. But most importantly he wants to improve and and isn't too proud to ask a five week wonder for guidance.

As bad a short course sparks running amok causing mayhem are, and there are many, traditionally qualified with bad attitudes are as bad.

 

[Aaron b]

I did a domestic installers course about ten years ago, with inspection and test. Then a skills assessment through NAPIT to gain their Approved Contractor status about five years ago. Without digging out the paper icouldnt list the exact courses.

Along the way I've done a few short courses, EV course, EM lighting, basically when something new comes along, do a course.

After my recent interactions with the "professionals" I'm looking into fire alarm installation.

Don't claim to know it all but I do know what I don't know and how to go about gaining the knowledge.

So is there a difference between your membership and a time served apprentices? With the new domestic installer apprenticeship it sounds like there will need to be a bridging unit.

It sounds like you have treated the course how it was intended, I think most people on this forum are generally a better bunch of people as they are normally looking to learn.

 

[GBDamo]

So is there a difference between your membership and a time served apprentices? With the new domestic installer apprenticeship it sounds like there will need to be a bridging unit.

No, not to my knowledge, we have approved contractor status.

It sounds like you have treated the course how it was intended, I think most people on this forum are generally a better bunch of people as they are normally looking to learn.

I fully aware of that and have learned a lot of members past and pressent.

 

[7029 dave]

I knew someone years ago, got graded by the JIB as an approved Electrician NO quals what so ever. When I asked him he said my firm gave references and the JIB ok'd it.
Bet that would not happen now lol.

Forgot to add the firm he worked for were in the JIB