Kitchen electrical work - are naked cables ok or not?

[Midwest]

Arrgh the art putting capping on a handful of cables, like knitting with spaghetti.

 

[FreshHomeOwner]

I'm not saying this is the case for the OP at all. It looks a mess, but who's to say when he chased the wall the plaster was rubbish and it just fell away - I've had that happen multiple times. Makes your work look shoddy as hell, but there's more to it than what a simple picture portrays.

So yes Midwest, I'm just saying it's wise not to speculate too much.

Well, to clarify: I did say that "The big hole was my old socket panel which obstructed the kitchen install", so it's not like I 'm claiming he created all of that void just from poor drilling alone, if that is what it's come across like.

I originally posted this as I was curious to know of regulations for conduits, given that the old wiring had it everywhere and I was surprised to see he didn't bother with it at all.

Anyway, given that most people's opinion is that it is a job on-the-edge-of-regulations but not strictly invalid, I'll just leave it be and hope that no future homeowner is careless enough to drill in these areas with power on. And learn to ask the right questions about a planned install beforehand...

 

[123]

If you used capping or just clipped into the chase in these parts (Northern Ireland) you would be thought to be a cowboy - by the builder and other trades, building control and often the customer. Generally anything chased into walls here is in conduit.

 

[rolyberkin]

I think this all comes down to personal pride in the job, whether or not it is technically correct is irrelevant in my book, all it needed was to be fed in a bit of oval conduit in the correct zone, job done, cost about 10p! I would not be happy leaving anything similar for anyone to see who may come in after me.

 

[westward10]

I think this all comes down to personal pride in the job, whether or not it is technically correct is irrelevant in my book, all it needed was to be fed in a bit of oval conduit in the correct zone, job done, cost about 10p! I would not be happy leaving anything similar for anyone to see who may come in after me.

Couldn't agree more I always use oval conduit up to the box entry and into ceiling cavities so hopefully cables can be withdrawn if necessary. We live in a world of falling standards and fast fix solutions, the gap between new school and old school skills is huge.

 

[Risteard]

If you used capping or just clipped into the chase in these parts (Northern Ireland) you would be thought to be a cowboy - by the builder and other trades, building control and often the customer. Generally anything chased into walls here is in conduit.

Undoubtedly true, but we fail to consider the effect on the wall of unnecessarily deep tracks. But as you say if you did it another way you'd be the worst in the world.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

A little while back, I worked in an old hotel which had been taken over by the Local Authority and was being used as a hostel.
We had to re-wire two floors.
All the cables were in capping and I only found one run where it was not possible to replace the cables down the capping.

 

[Wilko]

At risk of copping incoming rounds ... I was raised on conduit in walls (or on em) and so that's what I do. Conduit in the wall helps if the accessory end needs a little bit more, after some clutz mullers it .

 

[Midwest]

If you used capping or just clipped into the chase in these parts (Northern Ireland) you would be thought to be a cowboy - by the builder and other trades, building control and often the customer. Generally anything chased into walls here is in conduit.

Just curious, is this in domestic properties and conduit, metal or plastic?

 

[123]

Just curious, is this in domestic properties and conduit, metal or plastic?

Domestic. Old installs from the 60's would have been in metal, but light gauge round plastic conduit generally...although sometimes oval.

 

[Midwest]

Domestic. Old installs from the 60's would have been in metal, but light gauge round plastic conduit generally...although sometimes oval.

You must have to use a fair bit of 25mm for some drops, again just curious?

 

[David M]

I do quite a lot of kitchen fitting, and being multi skilled I do the complete job including first fix electrics & pluming, plastering, tiling and installing the kitchen. In fact I got into this because I was fed up of following other trades and having to deal with one problem after another.

A good tradesman (in my opinion) will consider the whole job. In that he/she will take into account what other items need addressing and how they will be installed.
As an electrician or plumber it is your responsibility to ensure that cables, pipes and accessories are installed with consideration to the customers requirements and also importantly the installation of the kitchen.

I have seen many occasions where a cable run has been installed directly where a kitchen unit is most likely to have the mounting plates installed. The kitchen fitter gets the blame for drilling the cable, when in some cases it is a partial blame situation. Its not rocket science, it takes ten minutes to mark out on the walls where units are likely to be fixed in place. Or failing that get the installer to do it so those areas can be avoided where possible.

My point being, yes its not good practice to just leave the cables un-capped, but capping offers little protection against a drill bit. It is far worse practice to not consider the whole install. Too many folk go in there do their bit and walk away with no concern for the next person to follow.

 

[dnjr]

I'm interested in knowing why some feel it's bad practice to not use capping? Surely it's a case of horses for courses, but not using it doesn't necessarily mean bad practice. It's easy enough to stick capping on a wall which hasn't been finished (example breezeblock on a new build), but in a chase of an old terraced house with 107 coats of different plaster and the brick course put in by Stevie Wonder installing capping is usually a lot more trouble than it's worth.

When you want to keep chases narrow and clean, I find that clipping is a lot neater and easier - the cables aren't likely to be damaged by the plasterer in a narrow chase. Granted, you can't say that was a narrow chase in the OPs case but that wall looks like all sorts of hell - to me if you tried to install capping on that it would look like the Ultimate roller coaster at Light Water Valley.

To say not using capping is always bad practice is just wrong in my opinion though.

Hi Hightower. Would have thought oval conduit for a chase would be the best option. Nice and neat any easy to replace cables if needs be in the future.

 

[rad1o]

We had a kitchen installed together with an extension that involved a good part of the rest of the house incl. electrics.
We changed from gas to eletric / induction hob and opted to not have those UGLY cooker switches in the kitchen at all. Both hob and cooker are separately fused on whatever was stipulated anyway. So if any work needs to be done I would always switch off the whole circuit at fuse board level anyway rather than just the switch.

 

[Risteard]

You must have to use a fair bit of 25mm for some drops, again just curious?

For domestic conduit drops 20mm is pretty much always adequate.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I worked on one kitchen install, where the designer wanted the sockets and switches precisely posisitioned to allow for the surrounding tiling to line up, so the lines between the tiles would line up with the center of each accessory both horizontally and vertically.
The wall was concrete and we running singles in conduit.
After all the chases were completed, the wall looked like a tube map.

 

[Midwest]

For domestic conduit drops 20mm is pretty much always adequate.

I was kinda thinking cookers, 3 gang switches etc.

 

[Midwest]

I have seen many occasions where a cable run has been installed directly where a kitchen unit is most likely to have the mounting plates installed. The kitchen fitter gets the blame for drilling the cable, when in some cases it is a partial blame situation. Its not rocket science, it takes ten minutes to mark out on the walls where units are likely to be fixed in place. Or failing that get the installer to do it so those areas can be avoided where possible.

QUOTE]

The kitchen fitters I do work for, draw some lovely lines on the walls, where all the wall and floor units are going, so I don't put my drops directly where they need to put their fixings.

Bloody nice blokes

 

[Risteard]

I was kinda thinking cookers, 3 gang switches etc.

3 -gang switch could use two drops. 6mm^2 for cooker fits within 20mm at a push.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I was brought up on oval for chases and capping for bare brick.