Live works,on DB to do or not to do

[cliffed]

what’s your take on working on live DB’S,connecting circuits & installing mcbs.

 

[Dave OCD]

Every situation is different and you weigh up the risk on a job by job basis but I'd always have the main switch off, certainly in domestic there's no reason not to ?

 

[littlespark]

We've all got 1000v insulated screwdrivers, haven't we?

 

[Octopus]

Why can't you turn the CU off ? Especially if you are fitting MCB's?

 

[The Ghost]

I follow the HSG85, especially using the flow chart for decision making. Do a RA, amd MS generally working around that framework. Don't do it if you can avoid it really is the bottom line. If you do have to then make sure you have RAMS.

 

[Andy-1960]

It’s fine until something goes wrong!.. then the HSE get involved and you had better have a very good reason for working live.
If you can .. always turn it off.
Have a look at Regulation14 of the Electricity at Work Regulations.
I was on the receiving end of an HSE investigation many years ago, when one of our electricians was changing an MCB in a board. The replacement was brand new and turned out to be faulty, the resultant explosion left the guy installing it badly burnt.
Customer had said he did not want the power off as it affected his computers.
HSE said no excuse.. we got fined and so did the customer!
We now do not work live and when you explain to the customer he could be in trouble too if something goes wrong, it’s amazing how a window of opportunity to do the work dead suddenly appears!

 

[cliffed]

Thanks for all comments,domestic installs,no problem switching off,but what about offices etc,where it can be a problem.
Always been taught switch off,but I’ve seen many a spark working on live Db’s,is it becoming a norm.

 

[cliffed]

It’s fine until something goes wrong!.. then the HSE get involved and you had better have a very good reason for working live.
If you can .. always turn it off.
Have a look at Regulation14 of the Electricity at Work Regulations.
I was on the receiving end of an HSE investigation many years ago, when one of our electricians was changing an MCB in a board. The replacement was brand new and turned out to be faulty, the resultant explosion left the guy installing it badly burnt.
Customer had said he did not want the power off as it affected his computers.
HSE said no excuse.. we got fined and so did the customer!
We now do not work live and when you explain to the customer he could be in trouble too if something goes wrong, it’s amazing how a window of opportunity to do the work dead suddenly appears!

Thanks,that really does make a decision easier,switch off

 

[Squid]

Thanks for all comments,domestic installs,no problem switching off,but what about offices etc,where it can be a problem.
Always been taught switch off,but I’ve seen many a spark working on live Db’s,is it becoming a norm.

Then its weekend work, double bubble.......... ;o))))))

 

[Ian1981]

It’s fine until something goes wrong!.. then the HSE get involved and you had better have a very good reason for working live.
If you can .. always turn it off.
Have a look at Regulation14 of the Electricity at Work Regulations.
I was on the receiving end of an HSE investigation many years ago, when one of our electricians was changing an MCB in a board. The replacement was brand new and turned out to be faulty, the resultant explosion left the guy installing it badly burnt.
Customer had said he did not want the power off as it affected his computers.
HSE said no excuse.. we got fined and so did the customer!
We now do not work live and when you explain to the customer he could be in trouble too if something goes wrong, it’s amazing how a window of opportunity to do the work dead suddenly appears!

Even if isolated if you restored the power it still would have exploded yes?
Or was the issue the cover wasn’t reinstated before turning on the mcb?
(I’m not advocating live working by the way)

 

[cliffed]

Additional circuits to Live Db’s,should it be planned by your company,explained to the customer,& a time/date to isolate completely,all this arranged before works begin.

 

[littlespark]

I’m not advocating live working by the way

Neither was I,

 

[Dave OCD]

We've all got 1000v insulated screwdrivers, haven't we?

It's not so much the chance of direct contact, more the risk of a short and the resultant nasty flash and bang....

 

[cliffed]

Agree,it also means that after works,another visit may be required to isolate the DB,to make the circuit live.
Adding extra cost & time to the job.

 

[Dave OCD]

Yes it could mean that, but still a lot cheaper than the consequences if it all goes pear shaped.

 

[Andy-1960]

Even if isolated if you restored the power it still would have exploded yes?
Or was the issue the cover wasn’t reinstated before turning on the mcb?
(I’m not advocating live working by the way)

Actually, no, the problem was that busbar termination screw in the MCB which should have been captive wasn’t. As the guy tried to tighten it it went thru the open side of the MCB and touch the neighbouring phase connection which resulted in a direct short between two phases. If the power had been off it would not have happened.

 

[magnoliafan89]

I tend to take the main incoming live out and hold the copper end in my mouth ....boards totally isolated then and safe to use .....

 

[Risteard]

It's worth remembering that there could be the potential for a substantial fault current which could pose serious risk to personnel working on it. It's actually quite a dangerous practise.

 

[cliffed]

I tend to take the main incoming live out and hold the copper end in my mouth ....boards totally isolated then and safe to use .....

Sounds good,is that on a regular basis.

 

[alexander jackson]

If I can I will isolate, most of my work is industrial in nature (non domestic) so if circuits can go dead they will.

 

[Octopus]

Then its weekend work, double bubble.......... ;o))))))

I’ve done weekend work at my normal day rate in an office .... it suited me and the customer!

 

[rapparee]

I must say I always work live

The biggest scare I got was when a general operator went to reach over my shoulder, he was mesmerised by the 400 amp copper bus bar.

He was looking to take it home for scrap, ready to ask me if I needed it.

 

[cliffed]

If I can I will isolate, most of my work is industrial in nature (non domestic) so if circuits can go dead they will.

What happens if you can’t

 

[cliffed]

I must say I always work live

The biggest scare I got was when a general operator went to reach over my shoulder, he was mesmerised by the 400 amp copper bus bar.

He was looking to take it home for scrap, ready to ask me if I needed it.

Ha ha

 

[Squid]

I must say I always work live

The biggest scare I got was when a general operator went to reach over my shoulder, he was mesmerised by the 400 amp copper bus bar.

He was looking to take it home for scrap, ready to ask me if I needed it.

Never heard a John Thomas called a 400 amp bus bar before, every day is a school day on the EF website........ no wonder you where scared.......

 

[drzsta]

Reminds me when I had a Spark come to me saying a 630a disconnector was dead.... he was testing on lacquered bus bars

 

[magnoliafan89]

Sounds good,is that on a regular basis.

No ill only ever be able to do it the once.....

 

[MFS Electrical]

I tend to take the main incoming live out and hold the copper end in my mouth ....boards totally isolated then and safe to use .....

It’s certainly a better pick me up than coffee or a red bull

 

[PEG]

We have had this topic aired,before,and my view remains the same.
I believe,that if you have to ask anyone,or are not 100% sure,of whether or not to work live,in any situation - you have your answer.

 

[SparkyChick]

The biggest scare I got was when a general operator went to reach over my shoulder, he was mesmerised by the 400 amp copper bus bar.

Don't... I did a job on Saturday adding a couple of socket outlets in a nice house in Newport. The lady of the house asked a question about the testing (insulation resistance at that stage) whilst I was at the open consumer unit.

"Ooh, look at that cobweb" she said as she reached into the consumer unit and swept it away with a finger, just above the live bus bar!

 

[Wilko]

The lady of the house asked a question about the testing whilst I was at the open consumer unit. "Ooh, look at that cobweb" she said as she reached into the consumer unit and swept it away with a finger, just above the live bus bar!

Oh dear that was close. For their and my safety, I wont allow untrained folk nearby as I work .

 

[SparkyChick]

Oh dear that was close. For their and my safety, I wont allow untrained folk nearby as I work .

Ordinarily, I tend to do the same but she was very interested in what the test was and why the results were important.

Just a note to myself I think... Always tell the customer it's live and not to stick their pinkies anywhere near it.... even if it's not... scope then for some shenanigans *BANG*

 

[The Ghost]

what about offices etc

We do work out of hours to address this problem if we cannot reasonably do it in normal work hours.

 

[The Ghost]

she reached into the consumer unit

This is why we should have barriers erected even in a domestic situation. I know I know sounds like a right jobsworth, and I am a bit stumped as to how that may practically achieved, but Lord help us if it goes wrong and there was no barrier.

 

[Andy78]

Don't... I did a job on Saturday adding a couple of socket outlets in a nice house in Newport. The lady of the house asked a question about the testing (insulation resistance at that stage) whilst I was at the open consumer unit.

"Ooh, look at that cobweb" she said as she reached into the consumer unit and swept it away with a finger, just above the live bus bar!

I've had that before too. I have literally grabbed customers by the wrist when they have come for a nosey and tried to ask a question by touching things.

I tend to credit most householders with a modicum of common sense, but there is always one who wants to share the under stairs cupboard without your permission.

 

[Wilko]

I give the "toolbox safety barrier talk" to anyone showing interest. They usually get bored, wander off and let me get on .

 

[Squid]

Don't... I did a job on Saturday adding a couple of socket outlets in a nice house in Newport. The lady of the house asked a question about the testing (insulation resistance at that stage) whilst I was at the open consumer unit.

"Ooh, look at that cobweb" she said as she reached into the consumer unit and swept it away with a finger, just above the live bus bar!

You mean you didn't hoover out the CSU before you started work? Tsk!

 

[Squid]

For some reason I think of SparkyChick as Nessa...........

 

[Squid]

I'm in trouble now aren't I?

 

[SparkyChick]

I'm in trouble now aren't I?

Just a little

I would never wear that get up

 

[Dave OCD]

I'm in trouble now aren't I?

I hope so !

 

[rapparee]

Never heard a John Thomas called a 400 amp bus bar before, every day is a school day on the EF website........ no wonder you where scared.......

After I shouted at him, he replied that he thought it was so innocent looking

 

[Squid]

Just a little

I would never wear that get up

Boiler suit?

 

[Rpa07]

Anytime now @SWD you can stop using it!

 

[Des 56]

This is why we should have barriers erected even in a domestic situation. I know I sound like a right jobsworth, and I am a bit stumped as to how that may practically achieved, but Lord help us if it goes wrong and there was no barrier.

 

[SparkyChick]

View attachment 42007
Anytime now @SWD you can stop using it!

No... don't try and stop him.... he's nearly deep enough... 6ft I reckon

Save's me a job

 

[telectrix]

No... don't try and stop him.... he's nearly deep enough... 6ft I reckon

Save's me a job

6ft is not deep enough. we'd still be able to hear him, albeit a bit muffled.

 

[Squid]

View attachment 42007
Anytime now @SWD you can stop using it!

Pfffft you've never met, I never discriminate I offend everyone......... ;o)))))

 

[MDJ]

what’s your take on working on live DB’S,connecting circuits & installing mcbs.

My opinion is no problem, just get on with it.

 

[alexander jackson]

What happens if you can’t

I do work on live boards...all the time but never on live cables, I have seen guys put live wires into light switches etc, wont do it I'm afraid.