Losing power to house post meter upgrade??

[lurch]

got called back to a rewire I completed 5 years ago. Customer reported intermittent loss of power across the house. I have a swa sub main from a 63amp switch fuse to the CU. I have checked all terminations at CU and switch fuse . . . . all good. Have thrown thenmain switch 4-5 times to see if it is faulty but all seems good.

Customer has advised new meter was installed 5-6 weeks ago . . . Ive given tails a good tug to see if there is anything amiss, but nothing to suggest any issues.

Has anyone come across a faulty meter that could be causing the issue?

Thx in advance.

 

[Marvo]

What's the duration of the power outages and how often has it happened? Is there any kind of pattern or do they seem random in their time of occurance and their duration? What did the customer do to get the power back on again?

 

[buzzlightyear]

got called back to a rewire I completed 5 years ago. Customer reported intermittent loss of power across the house.

what's the supply from the DNO !

 

[lurch]

What's the duration of the power outages and how often has it happened? Is there any kind of pattern or do they seem random in their time of occurance and their duration? What did the customer do to get the power back on again?

 

[lurch]

2-3 mins. max 5 mins. outages are becoming more frequent . . . 1 or twice last week, now 2-3 times a day. no pattern that is obvious. customer checked mcbs, RCDs and nothing tripped. .. . power is reinstating itself. . . suggests loose connection or faulty component somewhere .

 

[lurch]

what's the supply from the DNO !

PME 100amp BS1361

 

[Marvo]

If you just want to prove it's not a warranty claim on your CU replacement I'd maybe install a temporary LED pilot lamp on fly-leads (with a small inline fuse) across the incoming supply at the CU. If the LED goes out when the next power fail happens then it indicates a meter or DNO fault.

 

[Marvo]

You could obviously do the same with a PQA or logger if you have access to one....

 

[lurch]

pqa?

 

[buzzlightyear]

[Qhttps://www.pqacademy.com/contact/UOTE="lurch, post: 1340575, member: 5010"]pqa?[/QUOTE]

 

[PEG]

Hi,what level of intelligence,is this meter?

 

[Marvo]

pqa?

Power Quality Analyzer / Power Data Logger

 

[static zap]

Keep an eye on consumption ,some meters have overload shut off !

 

[PEG]

Keep an eye on consumption ,some meters have overload shut off !

Really? Who installs those? Is that on usage or over-current?

With the OP's power coming back on,these meters must have a re-closing device,which is going to require a re-write of certain legislation...

 

[static zap]

Re-closing device,(... require a re-write of certain legislation...)

Sorry my mistake !
Good point , just putting overload protection hidden in new places out there .
--Cannot be the case today ,because they don't re-close ,without user action--
..and beep their head's off ..

 

[PEG]

Yep,i have a small issue with the metering job,at present,and have been involved in discussions with some R&D types,regarding the direction it is heading.

Some of the capabilities,these meters have,or could easily have,are prevented from being implemented,by current legislation.

This is not to say,in the future,that will not change...as with projects such as driver-less vehicles,and drone deliveries

Remote meter switching,is a DNO's nuclear option....but there are problems.

Any straightforward switching off,would require on-site presence,like,if you were there with the relevant authority,and access,and pulled the main fuse,then made safe.

To do this from "base",you would need to know the telemetry was working (mmm) you would need to know it applied to the correct device (mmm) you would also need to know the device could switch at OCPD maximum rating (well...) but,more importantly,you would need to be absolutely sure,that the 80 odd year old tenant,that you did not know was living there,was not either hooked up to her nebuliser,ventilator or EOL pain management system,OR,about to descend a straight and windowless flight of stairs...

Have no doubt,the second they have insurance/protocol/indemnity,in place for the above - it will happen.

...But as for having a re-closing device,capable of coping with multiple operations commensurate with the DNO's OCPD ....that is going to complicate a lot of fire/flood situations in properties

 

[Squid]

Bypass the meter for a year or so and see if there are any issues.

 

[Squid]

Joking apart, you did the work 5 years ago a meter change that you had nothing to do with 6 weeks ago, I think they called the wrong person out and who will you be billing, is it a smart meter by any chance?

 

[snowhead]

Is it everything in the house going?
Are the neighbours having any issues?
Do the street lights also go out , if it goes off at night?

If it's a Smart meter the supplier should be able to remotely check if there has been a loss of incoming supply and / or a loss of outgoing supply from the meter.

 

[lurch]

Not smart meter, but looks pretty nifty

 

[buzzlightyear]

Not smart meter, but looks pretty nifty

did you take pic of the meter .

 

[lurch]

Unfortunately not........ however I refer to my 1st post . Has any one come across a faulty meter that could be causing this?

 

[Squid]

Unfortunately not........ however I refer to my 1st post . Has any one come across a faulty meter that could be causing this?

Not me.

 

[Squid]

I did have a meter that I connected up once that went backwards but I was suffering from a hangover.......

 

[lurch]

Hi,what level of intelligence,is this meter?

dumb

 

[lurch]

Yep,i have a small issue with the metering job,at present,and have been involved in discussions with some R&D types,regarding the direction it is heading.

Some of the capabilities,these meters have,or could easily have,are prevented from being implemented,by current legislation.

This is not to say,in the future,that will not change...as with projects such as driver-less vehicles,and drone deliveries

Remote meter switching,is a DNO's nuclear option....but there are problems.

Any straightforward switching off,would require on-site presence,like,if you were there with the relevant authority,and access,and pulled the main fuse,then made safe.

To do this from "base",you would need to know the telemetry was working (mmm) you would need to know it applied to the correct device (mmm) you would also need to know the device could switch at OCPD maximum rating (well...) but,more importantly,you would need to be absolutely sure,that the 80 odd year old tenant,that you did not know was living there,was not either hooked up to her nebuliser,ventilator or EOL pain management system,OR,about to descend a straight and windowless flight of stairs...

Have no doubt,the second they have insurance/protocol/indemnity,in place for the above - it will happen.

...But as for having a re-closing device,capable of coping with multiple operations commensurate with the DNO's OCPD ....that is going to complicate a lot of fire/flood situations in properties

woosh!!

 

[lurch]

Joking apart, you did the work 5 years ago a meter change that you had nothing to do with 6 weeks ago, I think they called the wrong person out and who will you be billing, is it a smart meter by any chance?

my ork is covered under a 6 year warranty. First point of call for customer is me, as I like to think I have built up a relationship with the customer and they are happy calling me and I am happy taking the call. I have made the normal checks ie. any loose terminals etc. . . . checked neighbours do not have same issue etc... Ive not had a problem with meters before but this seems this is the way it is heading.

 

[lurch]

Is it everything in the house going?
Are the neighbours having any issues?
Do the street lights also go out , if it goes off at night?

If it's a Smart meter the supplier should be able to remotely check if there has been a loss of incoming supply and / or a loss of outgoing supply from the meter.

1. yes
2. no
3. no

not smart meter

 

[lurch]

did you take pic of the meter .

Not me.

thx

 

[Percyprod]

DNOs don't install meters, they are the suppliers property. This sort of fault very often turns out to be a fault on the supply cable, eventually will burn out, making it much easier to find fault. Is it overhead supply? If it is look out for arcing where it connects to house, easier at night!

 

[static zap]

Have you confirmed supply voltage rock steady ,
applied a reasonable load ,and listened carefully in a quiet enviroment ... while gently disturbing ,anything meter fitter would have ! ( Just short of attaching monitoring equipment )
(or leaving customer with a guessing wand / stick
-----apply either side of meter)
..Insert flack here..

 

[Squid]

my ork is covered under a 6 year warranty. First point of call for customer is me, as I like to think I have built up a relationship with the customer and they are happy calling me and I am happy taking the call. I have made the normal checks ie. any loose terminals etc. . . . checked neighbours do not have same issue etc... Ive not had a problem with meters before but this seems this is the way it is heading.

Ah okay nice to see a conscientious contractor.

 

[static zap]

... covered under a 6 year warranty....

Well done ,workmanship - And know your parts !

 

[lurch]

Have you confirmed supply voltage rock steady ,
applied a reasonable load ,and listened carefully in a quiet enviroment ... while gently disturbing ,anything meter fitter would have ! ( Just short of attaching monitoring equipment )
(or leaving customer with a guessing wand / stick
-----apply either side of meter)
..Insert flack here..

voltage is good n steady at 243 volts. Also done a zs at a socket of 0.47 ohms. A high resistance would/should/could pick up any poor connections h . . . typically spoke to homeowner today any no outages . . . Ive asked them to keep me updated. I'll post any updates. Thx for all input

 

[lurch]

Ah okay nice to see a conscientious contractor.

I need to sleep at night!!! also a happy customer is a customer that recommends there contractors to there friends and neighbours

 

[Squid]

Are they still employing muppets with close to no electrical experience to install meters in this day?

 

[static zap]

....... This sort of fault very often turns out to be a fault on the supply cable, eventually will burn out, making it much easier to find fault..................

Noticed that in town , a few streets have failed after new street lighting disturbed old cable.

 

[PEG]

DNOs don't install meters, they are the suppliers property. This sort of fault very often turns out to be a fault on the supply cable, eventually will burn out, making it much easier to find fault. Is it overhead supply? If it is look out for arcing where it connects to house, easier at night!

Some meters,if old enough,are still the DNO's property.
I know this,because the old Ferranti and Venner meters,fitted in the 50's and 60's,are removed by suppliers,such as Eon,but are the property of Norweb,now BG.
They happily tell you you need a "smart" job,due to these being scrap...

BUT! Guess where these meters are going?
They are getting a refurb,and are off to countries like Africa,for re-fitting....makes me proud to be a British engineer

 

[elsparko]

Are they still employing muppets with close to no electrical experience to install meters in this day?

of course, who else will install smart meters for 18k a year... lol

 

[elsparko]

occams razor suggests that this is not your liability, recent meter change = they are likely the culprit, who knows what they have done, could be possible underground cables are damaged but slightly more unlikely

 

[Squid]

of course, who else will install smart meters for 18k a year... lol

Someone on 17k per year

 

[Percyprod]

Noreen ceased to exist many years ago! I should know, I worked for them. We then became United Utilities then ENWL. The meters may have the old Board names on them but the DNOs don't own (or want) them. They were transferred to the suppliers.

 

[Marvo]

Did you localize the fault @lurch ?

Just interested what was causing it...

 

[lurch]

Did you localize the fault @lurch ?

Just interested what was causing it...

Not yet. Have asked the customer to keep me updated but have heard nothing yet......

 

[static zap]

Had a thought ,are they properly -Losing power
Long enough to reset a computer .
(or just got the "Willies" over a odd light flicker as old freezer / hoover cuts in ) ..after reading an article ... (will notice every glitch then)
.... and comments about NAF meter fitters + Plastic CU + Fires
..Would you rate them as nervous sort ?..
As this time of year ,heightens our awareness - having the lights on a lot !
(Theorizing -no need to actually post answer)

 

[Percyprod]

Noreen ceased to exist many years ago! I should know, I worked for them. We then became United Utilities then ENWL. The meters may have the old Board names on them but the DNOs don't own (or want) them. They were transferred to the suppliers.

Should be Norweb!

 

[Ernie Shaw]

Have you checked the tails in the consumer unit for tightness as they could have been loosened when fitter was putting the tails in to the meter

 

[stevels4]

Have you checked the tails in the consumer unit for tightness as they could have been loosened when fitter was putting the tails in to the meter

Please re-read the opening post.

 

[stevels4]

Have the cut out to meter tails been replaced?

 

[charlaz angel]

0.47 ohms sounds a bit high.Might be a high resistance intermittent fault on the incoming main supply.If its a CNE service,must be under 0.35 ohms.Get the DNO out to test the ELI on their cable.