New socket on ring main - replace consumer unit?

[andyb]

You are barred.

I'll get my coat.

 

[Midwest]

I currently have a double socket in our spare bedroom and a 4 way extension block running a computer and peripherals. For neatness I would like to have an electrician add a second double socket right next to the existing one and do away with the extension block. The socket can be added to the existing ring main.

However a neighbour told me that if I have any electrical work like this done then I may be required by regulations to have my consumer unit updated as it is a fuse wire unit, not RCD.

I could understand an upgrade requirement if a new circuit was being added but not for a trivial modification like this surely?

(I do understand the safety benefits of RCD over fuses, I just want to be clear on whether an upgrade would be mandated as my neighbour suggests.)

Thanks for any help.

Whilst I can't criticise (perhaps not the right word), I can't whole heartily agree with everything that's been said.

If you asked me to install a new socket without RCD protection (even though existing adjacent have none). I would decline. The RCD protection is there for good reason. Even though your trailing lead has none either, I don't understand peoples mindset, when they want to change something for 'neatness', but do not wish to consider safety.

Another issue I wish to comment on; there will be some here, who say there is nothing wrong with a rewire-able fuse board (consumer unit) and they would be correct. But it is also an indication of the age of your electrical installation. I would recommend considering having a (free) quotation for a new consumer unit, and perhaps an inspection of the remainder of your installation.

I see that you can afford 'computers & peripherals', but it seems you don't have money to spend on a safety upgrade to your property. A motor vehicle is required to have a annual safety check after three years of age, but a domestic electrical installation can go for decades without inspection, other than DIY alterations.

It is easy for me, perhaps to pontificate as the cost to me as an electrician would be small, but I would follow your neighbours nontechnical, but sensible advice.

My opinion.

 

[telectrix]

socket can be fitted without RCD protection if it's labelled as dedicated use for computer equipment and there's no likelyhood of a portable appliance being plugged in. tin hat on.

 

[Pete999]

H

socket can be fitted without RCD protection if it's labelled as dedicated use for computer equipment and there's no likelyhood of a portable appliance being plugged in. tin hat on.

Honest question would that also need a Risk Assessment.?

 

[Midwest]

Both incorrect. Believe in this instance it's a domestic property, so therefore no sockets without RCD protection and risk assessment doesn't apply or permitted.

I believe the only exceptions, would be the use of a socket outlet for specific medical equipment or critical IT equipment. I suppose you could argue the latter, so you can access this forum for one's daily 'fix'.

 

[telectrix]

Both incorrect. Believe in this instance it's a domestic property, so therefore no sockets without RCD protection and risk assessment doesn't apply or permitted.

I believe the only exceptions, would be the use of a socket outlet for specific medical equipment or critical IT equipment. I suppose you could argue the latter, so you can access this forum for one's daily 'fix'.

disagree . a socket thet's dedicated to a fridge or freezer and labelled as such is permitted in a domestic situ. also, OP can do what he wants in his own house, assuming he does a safe job.

 

[Midwest]

disagree . a socket thet's dedicated to a fridge or freezer and labelled as such is permitted in a domestic situ. also, OP can do what he wants in his own house, assuming he does a safe job.

Reg. 411.3.3 has changed from 'specifically labelled' to 'for a specifically labelled'. The examples of particular equipment (domestic) given in a ECA on-line training package I did were; specific home medical or IT critical equipment. Which is why I mentioned IT equipment, as you mentioned 'computers' in you earlier post. I'm not sure if a home PC could be determined as critical IT equipment.

I suppose a fridge freezer could fall into this definition, but the supply to the socket would have to be installed so that reg. 522.6.20 didn't apply.

From the IET wiring matters 54, it is stressed 'Unless the electrical installation designer is convinced that the socket-outlet cannot reasonably be expected to be used for other purposes, RCD protection for that socket-outlet should not be omitted'.

And of course the OP can do want he wants to do in his own house. But these are the regulations that apply in these circumstances, ones which I intend to comply with and advise to.

 

[Midwest]

Both incorrect.

Having reread my post, my opening line comes across a bit pompous, so apologies for that. Just think we should be careful what we advise DIY'ers.

Anyhow's just come back from my expedition to the local supermarket, to secure a reduced price turkey. Its like a war zone, with hand to hand fighting. Managed to secure one, using a distraction blow on a fellow raider, she was about 85. We gonna be eating turkey for weeks.

 

[Andy_G]

I currently have a double socket in our spare bedroom and a 4 way extension block running a computer and peripherals. For neatness I would like to have an electrician add a second double socket right next to the existing one and do away with the extension block. The socket can be added to the existing ring main.

However a neighbour told me that if I have any electrical work like this done then I may be required by regulations to have my consumer unit updated as it is a fuse wire unit, not RCD.

I could understand an upgrade requirement if a new circuit was being added but not for a trivial modification like this surely?

(I do understand the safety benefits of RCD over fuses, I just want to be clear on whether an upgrade would be mandated as my neighbour suggests.)

Thanks for any help.

I would take the view that a new consumer unit is needed but I would make it clear that it is not compulsory to do so. I genuinely don't think you would be providing a quality service by just installing an rcd socket that would give rcd protection to just 1 socket in the property. Give them the options in writing to be on the safe side. Replacing an old c/u that has rewritable fuses is not overkill by any stretch of the imagination, unless you have no knowledge of electrical installations

 

[ETO]

Just a quick question, what work did have done in the kitchen 7-8 years ago? that would have landed under 16th edition regs and so socket rcd protection would have been required if any sockets were added then. *insert massive groan at kitchen fitters*

 

[LankyWill]

Im with Pete on the ring main part but light bulbs is a tricky one. Even major retailers are against us, light bulb department and all that. Sometimes to avoid looking like an anorak i use the bulb phrase and secretly die a little inside.

 

[Andy78]

I would take the view that a new consumer unit is needed but I would make it clear that it is not compulsory to do so. I genuinely don't think you would be providing a quality service by just installing an rcd socket that would give rcd protection to just 1 socket in the property. Give them the options in writing to be on the safe side. Replacing an old c/u that has rewritable fuses is not overkill by any stretch of the imagination, unless you have no knowledge of electrical installations

Needed but not compulsory ? They mean the same thing.

Providing a quality service means providing what the customer asks for, being compliant with the regulations, and delivering a solution in line with the customer's budget as far as practicable. Not more than quadrupling the price of a job for no good reason just because it's something that's "needed, in your view"

 

[Octopus]

Just a quick question, what work did have done in the kitchen 7-8 years ago? that would have landed under 16th edition regs and so socket rcd protection would have been required if any sockets were added then. *insert massive groan at kitchen fitters*

If sockets were added or moved then RCD protection should have been added..... and the main earthing and bonding should have been checked too.....

A kitchen fitter who is a competent, qualified spark is a rare beast...

 

[hightower]

Providing a quality service means providing what the customer asks for, being compliant with the regulations, and delivering a solution in line with the customer's budget as far as practicable.

true, but it also comes down to "good practice", something that comes up a great deal. It's okay for a spark not to want to do it a certain way no matter how compliant it is if he feels it might tarnish his name

 

[Midwest]

I tend to agree that the customer should be advised to consider CU replacement (as I gave in #22). Whilst non RCD sockets, and fuse boards were compliant when they were installed, things have moved on in terms of safety. Much like power steering and anti-lock brakes in cars. The installation of a new CU is not expensive, considering the safety improvement. The OP could quickly establish a price guide, by searching this forum.

It's the customers decision, but I think we should encourage the improvement of an existing installation, as long as we are honest & upfront about the alternatives.

 

[Andy78]

If I took my car in for new tyres I wouldn't expect to have a new uprated braking system recommended.
If I needed a dented panel sorting, I wouldn't expect to be quoted for a full respray.

I'd suggest a board change and all the potential remedial work that comes with it if 2 or 3 circuits were to be altered and all required RCD protection, but for a single additional socket, I'd be surprised for any customer to consider more than the cheapest option.

 

[Midwest]

If I took my car in for new tyres I wouldn't expect to have a new uprated braking system recommended.
If I needed a dented panel sorting, I wouldn't expect to be quoted for a full respray.

I'd suggest a board change and all the potential remedial work that comes with it if 2 or 3 circuits were to be altered and all required RCD protection, but for a single additional socket, I'd be surprised for any customer to consider more than the cheapest option.

You've not watched 'Wheeler Dealers' or 'Car SoS' then, they are always up-rating the braking systems and respraying their cars.

 

[Andy78]

You've not watched 'Wheeler Dealers' or 'Car SoS' then, they are always up-rating the braking systems and respraying their cars.

That analogy would be best suited to a house renovation with a view to sell and not an additional socket don't you think ?

 

[Midwest]

That analogy would be best suited to a house renovation with a view to sell and not an additional socket don't you think ?

I wouldn't know, I was just taking the Michael

 

[WiganCasino]

I empathise with your sentiment and I can see where you're coming from, but I wouldn't. If this was generally permitted, you'd end up with situations like Trigger's broom...

Brill