NICEIC Certification Scheme NICEIC Complaint? Waste of time.

[someconsumer]

Honestly... I speechless at this story.

The NICEIC have just washed their hands of a valid complaint.

Ever heard of a new build property with 7x C2's, 5x C3's and 6x FI's?
I own one.
2x electricians (both Napit and NICEIC) said major problems including C2's.
EICR produced with pictures - partly because the original electrician was being a nightmare denying everything.

Original electrician did one day remedial... then vanished.

NICEIC complaint raised.

Site visit happened and NICEIC said... no C2's or C3's!!!

NICEIC just repeated verbatim the excuses (and blatant lies) of the original electrician who was there.

• outside lights not earthed? Not installed by the electrician. Must be builder.
• heating system missing earths? Not installed by the electrician. Must be builder.
• tripping system? Old hoover or heating system.
• No 2 way lights? Must be the 'smart' switches which just need radio pairing
• Thermal damage on a light switch joint? Must have happened during the EICR or someone played with it (yeah right).
• Fire rating for spotlights? No habitable room above (er... bedrooms aren't habitable???)
• Loose connections? Didn't see 'em (aka didn't look at the ones in the EICR pictures)

WTF?

Don't bother raising a complaint to the NICEIC; they're not interested in customer safety.

Forget the Platinum Promise, it's meaningless. Just promise to pay your fee on time.

Any electricians worried about complaints? Don't worry... they're not interested as long as you pay your fee.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Be interesting to see pictures of all those C2s

 

[someconsumer]

Yup a qualified electrician did that and got away with it.

 

[someconsumer]

Nice cable... be good if it was plugged into something.

 

[littlespark]

There could be a case for getting the papers involved, or your MP.....

What is the actual point of the schemes when there's just as many cowboys registered as there is not registered.
Having the badge on your van actually increases the number of jobs these rogues can do

 

[someconsumer]

There could be a case for getting the papers involved, or your MP.....

What is the actual point of the schemes when there's just as many cowboys registered as there is not registered.
Having the badge on your van actually increases the number of jobs these rogues can do

Yup - total waste of time having the badge.

How on earth can this happen in the UK in this century???

 

[LukeD]

Yup - total waste of time having the badge.

How on earth can this happen in the UK in this century???

Neighbour to me has a cowboy builder remove a boiler and fit it back on another wall .Not gas safe registered and zero paperwork. Upstairs smells gas and calls the Gas board. They come and find a tiny leak .But when questioned the owner denied having the boiler moved and the gas board did NOT say anything and just went away as the landlord turned the gas off himself. Now why the council Gas safe or the gas board etc take no action against the owner ? Its a farce . No one is checking and no one is truly bothered .But over stay a parking ticket and you get fined !! !!!

 

[Pretty Mouth]

heating system missing earths? Not installed by the electrician. Must be builder.

Often the wiring for the heating system is installed by the heating engineer.

tripping system? Old hoover or heating system.

Many things can cause this, not necessarily the building's wiring. Unless the cause has been identified, you cannot be certain that the electrician is responsible.

Fire rating for spotlights? No habitable room above (er... bedrooms aren't habitable???)

Whether fire rated downlights are required or not is complicated, it's not as simple as whether there's a habitable room above. You often get differences of opinion between electricians on this. Usually they're not needed where they don't breach a fire barrier. Typically, for a 'normal' 2 storey house, the plasterboard ceilings aren't fire barriers. Sometimes though, the plasterboard ceiling is needed to protect modern types of floor joist.

This isn't to say you don't have a valid complaint against the electrician, just that not all of it may be his fault.

Do you have a copy of the installation certificate?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Like everything ultimately it all falls back on the home owners / bill payers shoulders to pay to have the shoddy work port right

Was this way before the Scams and still this way with the Scams

I said 25 years ago when I started out in the trade , Scams are bout making themselves money , and nothing to do with standards or safety

Scams are called Scams for a reason

 

[someconsumer]

Often the wiring for the heating system is installed by the heating engineer.

Many things can cause this, not necessarily the building's wiring. Unless the cause has been identified, you cannot be certain that the electrician is responsible.

Whether fire rated downlights are required or not is complicated, it's not as simple as whether there's a habitable room above. You often get differences of opinion between electricians on this. Usually they're not needed where they don't breach a fire barrier. Typically, for a 'normal' 2 storey house, the plasterboard ceilings aren't fire barriers. Sometimes though, the plasterboard ceiling is needed to protect modern types of floor joist.

This isn't to say you don't have a valid complaint against the electrician, just that not all of it may be his fault.

Do you have a copy of the installation certificate?

Yes I do have the EIC, many electricians have questioned how a lot of the figures are the same.

I suspected the heating system may have been installed by someone else but there's a serious lack of planning if earth's are missing. The NICEIC inspector even acknowledged a lack of planning (wrong number of circuits).

This is a 4 storey modern house, we were in the ground floor kitchen with bedrooms above us and a second floor above that.
Yes noticed there's a difference of opinions, but a dismissive "no habitable rooms above" comment from the kitchen does not inspire confidence. Interestingly the EICR also found no CPC continuity on the downlights.

I am amazed how little accountability the electricians actually have here.

 

[UNG]

Honestly... I speechless at this story.

The NICEIC have just washed their hands of a valid complaint.

Ever heard of a new build property with 7x C2's, 5x C3's and 6x FI's?
I own one.
2x electricians (both Napit and NICEIC) said major problems including C2's.
EICR produced with pictures - partly because the original electrician was being a nightmare denying everything.

Original electrician did one day remedial... then vanished.

NICEIC complaint raised.

Site visit happened and NICEIC said... no C2's or C3's!!!

NICEIC just repeated verbatim the excuses (and blatant lies) of the original electrician who was there.

• outside lights not earthed? Not installed by the electrician. Must be builder.
• heating system missing earths? Not installed by the electrician. Must be builder.
• tripping system? Old hoover or heating system.
• No 2 way lights? Must be the 'smart' switches which just need radio pairing
• Thermal damage on a light switch joint? Must have happened during the EICR or someone played with it (yeah right).
• Fire rating for spotlights? No habitable room above (er... bedrooms aren't habitable???)
• Loose connections? Didn't see 'em (aka didn't look at the ones in the EICR pictures)

WTF?

Don't bother raising a complaint to the NICEIC; they're not interested in customer safety.

Forget the Platinum Promise, it's meaningless. Just promise to pay your fee on time.

Any electricians worried about complaints? Don't worry... they're not interested as long as you pay your fee.

Maybe you need to elevate the complaint to the body that gives the NICEIC it's accreditation to operate

Complaints and Appeals

UKAS welcomes feedback from its customers, stakeholders and the end users of accredited services. If you have any suggestions as to how UKAS might improve its services, please get in touch.

www.ukas.com

It would be interesting to hear how they respond

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Yes I do have the EIC, many electricians have questioned how a lot of the figures are the same.

I suspected the heating system may have been installed by someone else but there's a serious lack of planning if earth's are missing. The NICEIC inspector even acknowledged a lack of planning (wrong number of circuits).

This is a 4 storey modern house, we were in the ground floor kitchen with bedrooms above us and a second floor above that.
Yes noticed there's a difference of opinions, but a dismissive "no habitable rooms above" comment from the kitchen does not inspire confidence. Interestingly the EICR also found no CPC continuity on the downlights.

I am amazed how little accountability the electricians actually have here.

4 storey I would expect probably does need fire rated downlights.

Post a redacted copy of the EIC here, we can take a look at it for you

 

[snowhead]

Is this a new build built by a national housebuilder or by a local developer and did you pay 1 single payment to them?
If so your complaint and retribution is with the company you paid the money to.

It then doesn't matter whether the electrician, landscape gardener or painter missed out the CPC and created the C2's etc it's for the person with whom you had a contract and who received your money, to sort out.

If it went to court you can't pursue the trades as you didn't employ them.

If however it was self build or you paid trades individually then it is your problem to deal with.

Does it have NHBC cover, they're probably just as bad as any other trade organisation but the more bodies involved the better?

 

[UNG]

Like everything ultimately it all falls back on the home owners / bill payers shoulders to pay to have the shoddy work port right

Was this way before the Scams and still this way with the Scams

I said 25 years ago when I started out in the trade , Scams are bout making themselves money , and nothing to do with standards or safety

Scams are called Scams for a reason

The scams have supported the electrical industries race to the bottom for a number of years now aided and abetted by the training companies and examination bodies add to that the changes made to the Electrotechnical Assessment Specification last year that has done little to improve the situation the industry finds itself in

You have to wonder from what is seen on here what the real world figures are for poor workmanship with regard to installations, EICR's etc and how much goes unnoticed and unreported leaving installations in a potentially dangerous state

 

[HappyHippyDad]

It's all a bit confusing. When I last had my Napit assessment they were very thorough. in fact, before that when it was Stroma, they were also thorough but Napit were very thorough. It does sound like they are not interested in complaints though.

I can't understand why they act professionally when it comes to yearly assessments, but not so with complaints regarding shoddy work.

If this is your home and you are still concerned about the safety of it, I would continue asking questions on here until you feel you have more knowledge about what exactly is wrong with the house (backed up by regulations) and then take it to UKAS (or whatever the body was that was mentioned in an earlier post). Frustrating for you though and I hope you get to a position where you are happy with the house.

 

[Intoelectrics]

It's all a bit confusing. When I last had my Napit assessment they were very thorough. in fact, before that when it was Stroma, they were also thorough but Napit were very thorough. It does sound like they are not interested in complaints though.

I can't understand why they act professionally when it comes to yearly assessments, but not so with complaints regarding shoddy work.

If this is your home and you are still concerned about the safety of it, I would continue asking questions on here until you feel you have more knowledge about what exactly is wrong with the house (backed up by regulations) and then take it to UKAS (or whatever the body was that was mentioned in an earlier post). Frustrating for you though and I hope you get to a position where you are happy with the house.

Yeah, it all does seem a bit ad hoc.
My guess is that if the scheme bodies make the assessments more stringent and the electricians have to be more thorough to pass, then in general they probably feel that the vast majority are going to stay compliant throughout their jobs. Obviously there will always be those that scam the scams and offer up examples that they have either had someone else do, or actually spent the time and effort to get the odd installation right just for assessment purposes, with no regard to any other work they produce there after.

This shouldn't however excuse the scams (schemes) from following up complaints and doing something about any dodgy members that are ruining the reputation of the genuine trades people and also the scam itself!

 

[Dustydazzler]

I know a couple scam registered sparks who are rough as ---- , but they are always busy. they openly admit that they only show their scam 2 or 3 'select' jobs when it comes to their site inspection

the rest go 'under the radar' and are right old lash ups like the OP

normally these types of trades are always rushing to get as many jobs done as possible or simply just don't give a ----

scams or no scams this won't change

 

[pirate]

You all know my views on new-builds, but sadly this is what to expect these days from many mainstream builders. The problem lies in builders asking electricians (maybe) to first and second fix new builds for a totally unrealistically low price.
Just wondering if that loose wire in #4 is the same wire that was "stabbed" in #3? Not a normal method of connection, but apparently common in other countries...
Anyway, if the property has NHBC status, you could raise a complaint with them, but in my experience all you would do is add another heartache to the problem. They are useless at such stuff, have no interest whatsoever in resolving complaints, but are adept at getting their per house fee for each new property and giving out a glossy brochure to welcome the first owner to his badly built piece of sh!t...oh, and some very bad news about the build quality too...don't expect any!

 

[Last plumber]

I came across a new consumer unit install with no earth. That was put in by an NICEIC registered electrician. All the paperwork was there with text book figures but he must have had little experience and obviously hadn't tested it. If he had tested it, he would have recognized that there was an issue, hopefully.

I have met a registered gas installer who used KOS fire cement as jointing paste because it was the same colour as jointing compound and a bit sticky! He had replaced a number of multifunctional gas valves in different properties before some other gas fitter noticed what he was doing.

I have reported a builder for erecting and glazing a conservatory with the boiler flue still in use. That was direct to HSE RIDDOR. They spoke to the home owner to advise not using the boiler. No comment to the builder was made.

We can all make mistakes but the things mentioned in this thread are not mistakes in my opinion. More often than not they are incompetence. The incompetence obviously swerves its way around the inspections and exam process doesn't it? How do these people become registered and deemed competent?

At the end of the day, the system only seems to come into play when there is injury, death, damage to property etc. I suppose that's the idea because until something actually happens, nothing happened!

Frustrating for those of us who work to the book. It costs a fortune to be legal and above board. At least you can sleep at night.

 

[UNG]

Does it have NHBC cover, they're probably just as bad as any other trade organisation but the more bodies involved the better?

The NHBC run by the builders for the builders in an attempt to give themselves some credibility, looked into making a complaint to them about a previous property I owned and decided it was much cheaper to fix the problem myself than pay the fee to make a complaint with the chance of it being successful stacked against me